SUFC: The Future The regeneration of Roots Hall

[Mr Browns Ghost]

Is it too late to a change of mind and move to FF? We could have a brand new stadium built to modern standards with great views from every seat and lots more. Anything you want and no worry about asbestos.

Sounds awful

 

[It'sGrimUpNorth]

Hence why I prefaced the explanation with the client's brief to squeeze in seats over aesthetics.

Few points of note when comparing to the North Bank:

1 - Yes, both have supporting columns to prop the roof, but the sightlines ('C-values') at Bristol exceed code requirements. Those in the North Bank will be well under the recommended figures.

2 - The new structure created at Bristol Rovers removed any inconsistency in critical dimensions (tread depths/riser heights, radial gangway and exit widths) - all things which won't be obvious to the naked eye, but have a major impact on permissible entry/exit capacity within the stadium's safety management plan, and have a bearing on safety certificate capacity calculation. The North Bank will only continue to degrade and make this process more problematic.

3 - The consideration about cantilever v supporting stanchions is twofold.
Firstly, the primary steels (think the rear column and raker - that is the diagonal member supporting the terracing, which partially props up the roof) would be significantly larger and heavier than those used at Bristol Rovers. The roof joists would likely convert to very deep trussed sections as well.
This has a knock-on effect on the civils works (foundations required) and the operational demands (requirement for craneage v forklift/manual handling etc.) - this has a major impact on time and cost.
For a span of that size, you might have a column at the rear which is a metre in diameter.
Secondly, and in turn, the increased steel dimensions reduce the available footprint, thus reducing theoretical maximum capacity - this is where a modular structure would make sense, but these have a cap on size, and any new North Bank would likely be larger than this restriction.
Bristol was a product of a strict brief of low cost capacity over aesthetics.

4 - The North Bank would appear to be an in-situ concrete terrace, cast over an embankment (likely comprised of waste material / rubble / asbestos / spoil etc.). There is currently no ability to create functional space - the Club's revenue in this area will be driven by net spend per head.
By creating a large void beneath the seating deck, we have enabled Bristol Rovers to introduce food & beverage / toilet functionality which was previously hired in as required.
If you don't have functionality beneath the stand, then this means it either has to be brought in outside the stand footprint (which isn't really possible as it stands), or placed at either end at the expense of seats, so there is a major trade off.

I’ll be honest my expectations aren’t too high, as long as the north is made all safe standing and given to home fans I don’t care how it looks

Absolutely this!!!

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Let me break down some very simplistic numbers that I've just crunched...

I'm going to be rather conservative here and assume there's 150 current hosp seats sold at SUFC (incl. boxes)

You've got the seasonal buyers who are already in the building who want seats, then somewhere like 10% of the current GA base will want a hospo ticket (this number is pretty much tried and tested) which includes entry level Hospitality or Premium General Admission Season Tickets.

That's now an additional market of 400 seats

I've just run some very sketchy maths on the local Southend on Sea NUTS 3 data of ~4,000 businesses and applied a fair 4% strike rate to those, then removed 50% who when it comes to pulling the trigger will leave. That's another 65 in the market wanting to buy an average of 3 seats each, that's give or take 200 seats.

I've just got the club to 750 seats just through organic growth from a shiny new facility. Apply some decent marketing to this, get the club moving back through the leagues and you're going to see even more demand. You also want to try and have around 10%-20% of inventory available match-by-match, so this ties in nicely to 1,000 seats.

I'd then reserve 500 seats as convertible seats ready for any surge in demand. If the GA ST's become scarce due to demand, entry level hospitality becomes an even more desirable product.

Not only this, but if you only have few seats, the lounges are either going to be too large (e.g. 3 square metres per person) or too small and not be able to host larger events and fail in the objective of making the club much needed money on non matchdays.

Can't really offer any more than this without going into a full scale feasibility exercise.

Thanks for this - have you spoken to COSU? I’m sure Justin would appreciate professionally crunched numbers from a Shrimpers fan. I can put you in touch if you’re not already. PM me

 

[Crawliano]

Thanks for this - have you spoken to COSU? I’m sure Justin would appreciate professionally crunched numbers from a Shrimpers fan. I can put you in touch if you’re not already. PM me

All good thanks, we’ve spoken!

 

[Crowstone Crevette]

Please do continue to post replies as I for one value your insights and professional knowledge

This^^

@Sherif H please continue with answers/suggestions to at least new questions and queries.

Just ignore the often repeated questions asked by people because they cant be bothered to follow the thread, or the plain ridiculous ones!

 

[* ORM *]

This^^

@Sherif H please continue with answers/suggestions to at least new questions and queries.

Just ignore the often repeated questions asked by people because they cant be bothered to follow the thread, or the plain ridiculous ones!

What have I missed. Can you summarise

 

[danbowen]

Maybe I am too young to understand this as I never went in the north bank but I really don’t understand the fascination with it being given back to the home fans. Creates plenty of issues such as access for away fans, where to place them and when we get a decent FA cup home draw we would need to give a large allocation further complicating this. Personally I think if we want to go as far up the football pyramid we do need a new stadium and not just a rebuild. New stadiums have rejuvenated tons of teams and helped them get to the very top. I’m not sure a rebuild of roots hall could ever achieve that nowadays but do believe a rebuild could help us cement league one level football eventually. The long term future of this club for the kids of today will eventually need a new ground down the line (maybe not 10-15 years) but realistically is it possible to keep updating Roots Hall in the future to the changes that will happen across most other grounds. Feel like what we could get in the next 5 years would be a huge improvement on what we have and that is massively welcomed but with restrictions on what we can already do especially with the west and south stands it is something that will eventually need to be seriously considered.

 

[BoyWonder2]

With all the talk of moving away fans, which I totally get, it’s worth remembering that the away fans have to be allocated 10% of the stadiums capacity in the League Cup and that increases to 15% in FA Cup matches.

Hence, if you remember, we were allocated a whole stand at Stamford Bridge, but if you watch the Premier League matches at Stamford Bridge on the TV, the away fans are just given a section.

I know we are mainly dealing with double figure away following in the league, but we have to have a percentage allocated to away fans, even if they don’t fill it.

The good news for us is any UEFA competition, the away fans only have to be allocated 5% so when we are in the Champions League in a few years time, we can fill Roots Hall with more Southend fans.

 

[overseas shrimper]

What have I missed. Can you summarise

Club talking to @Sherif H about rotating the pitch 180 degrees I hope. I think it makes sense and surprised nobody's mentioned it before.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Club talking to @Sherif H about rotating the pitch 180 degrees I hope. I think it makes sense and surprised nobody's mentioned it before.

180 degrees is definitely the optimum rotation imho!

 

[Ramsdenblue]

Maybe I am too young to understand this as I never went in the north bank but I really don’t understand the fascination with it being given back to the home fans. Creates plenty of issues such as access for away fans, where to place them and when we get a decent FA cup home draw we would need to give a large allocation further complicating this. Personally I think if we want to go as far up the football pyramid we do need a new stadium and not just a rebuild. New stadiums have rejuvenated tons of teams and helped them get to the very top. I’m not sure a rebuild of roots hall could ever achieve that nowadays but do believe a rebuild could help us cement league one level football eventually. The long term future of this club for the kids of today will eventually need a new ground down the line (maybe not 10-15 years) but realistically is it possible to keep updating Roots Hall in the future to the changes that will happen across most other grounds. Feel like what we could get in the next 5 years would be a huge improvement on what we have and that is massively welcomed but with restrictions on what we can already do especially with the west and south stands it is something that will eventually need to be seriously considered.

Oh, yes, but if you had gone in the north bank back in the day, you would know exactly what you had missed, and would want a lot more of it.

Its like, going with a very dirty bird. (h Ornithology).
Once you been there, you would like to go back.

That imo, was / is the North bank.

 

[Uncle_Rons_Teapot]

We've gone from everyone being an expert in how to sell a football club to now everyone suddenly being Bob the builder

 

[Supershrimper]

We've gone from everyone being an expert in how to sell a football club to now everyone suddenly being Bob the builder

I've got past knowledge though.

I played LMA Manager back in the day and I turned Roots Hall into a 60,000 seater stadium no problem. It can be done, the computer game said so

 

[londonblue]

That's a ridiculous analogy, as you're insinuating that you'd build a house with 15 times the room that you would need. No one is saying that we need to build a 10,000 capacity mega-stand, all people are saying is that it'll be better to have some extra capacity upfront rather than having to build it all on later when / if we need it.

I would imagine the incremental cost of building a bigger stand is less than adding more seats at a later date.

 

[WickfordShrimper]

When Ron Martin goes Bankrupt we can apply to build our new ground again at Fossetts Farm

 

[rigsby]

Maybe I am too young to understand this as I never went in the north bank but I really don’t understand the fascination with it being given back to the home fans. Creates plenty of issues such as access for away fans, where to place them and when we get a decent FA cup home draw we would need to give a large allocation further complicating this. Personally I think if we want to go as far up the football pyramid we do need a new stadium and not just a rebuild. New stadiums have rejuvenated tons of teams and helped them get to the very top. I’m not sure a rebuild of roots hall could ever achieve that nowadays but do believe a rebuild could help us cement league one level football eventually. The long term future of this club for the kids of today will eventually need a new ground down the line (maybe not 10-15 years) but realistically is it possible to keep updating Roots Hall in the future to the changes that will happen across most other grounds. Feel like what we could get in the next 5 years would be a huge improvement on what we have and that is massively welcomed but with restrictions on what we can already do especially with the west and south stands it is something that will eventually need to be seriously considered.

You may have seen the YouTube clip when we played Liverpool FAC3 1979.... Back then the North was obviously standing for home fans and included the North West right round to about X block. I believe the capacity was around 7000.

For that game we simply switched to allow the scousers the North. As its FAC you haven't pre sold any east or standing so season would have to buy else where. The Saturday game was postponed so the scousers returned 1000's of tickets but the y were easily snapped up by all the Shrimpers who had missed out on an original ticket. Thats why there is a segregation gap behind the goal.

It could be done back then with 30,000 arriving for a night game. We should look to switch to some Friday night games v the likes Fylde, Altrincham, Rochdale etc where there are under 100 away fans. We could easily find room for them in the East Blues as an example.

Rather than a flat no away fans atmosphere. Seasos could transfer their ticket for a night of nostalgia and you 'youngsters' could join us for the joy of knowing what a Friday night under lights in the North was really all about.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Maybe I am too young to understand this as I never went in the north bank but I really don’t understand the fascination with it being given back to the home fans. Creates plenty of issues such as access for away fans, where to place them and when we get a decent FA cup home draw we would need to give a large allocation further complicating this. Personally I think if we want to go as far up the football pyramid we do need a new stadium and not just a rebuild. New stadiums have rejuvenated tons of teams and helped them get to the very top. I’m not sure a rebuild of roots hall could ever achieve that nowadays but do believe a rebuild could help us cement league one level football eventually. The long term future of this club for the kids of today will eventually need a new ground down the line (maybe not 10-15 years) but realistically is it possible to keep updating Roots Hall in the future to the changes that will happen across most other grounds. Feel like what we could get in the next 5 years would be a huge improvement on what we have and that is massively welcomed but with restrictions on what we can already do especially with the west and south stands it is something that will eventually need to be seriously considered.

I agree. But we need to move on. COSU have made the decision on Roots Hall and if FF housing ever gets built the last possible site in the town has gone. We could of course relocate to Basildon.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

You may have seen the YouTube clip when we played Liverpool FAC3 1979.... Back then the North was obviously standing for home fans and included the North West right round to about X block. I believe the capacity was around 7000.

For that game we simply switched to allow the scousers the North. As its FAC you haven't pre sold any east or standing so season would have to buy else where. The Saturday game was postponed so the scousers returned 1000's of tickets but the y were easily snapped up by all the Shrimpers who had missed out on an original ticket. Thats why there is a segregation gap behind the goal.

It could be done back then with 30,000 arriving for a night game. We should look to switch to some Friday night games v the likes Fylde, Altrincham, Rochdale etc where there are under 100 away fans. We could easily find room for them in the East Blues as an example.

Rather than a flat no away fans atmosphere. Seasos could transfer their ticket for a night of nostalgia and you 'youngsters' could join us for the joy of knowing what a Friday night under lights in the North was really all about.

IIrc cup games and reserve games were included in the season ticket booklets. The booklets where the league games were numbered and the cup games went alphabetically listed at the rear of the book.
We just showed the ST booklet for the reserve games which only had East Stand open.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Maybe I am too young to understand this as I never went in the north bank but I really don’t understand the fascination with it being given back to the home fans. Creates plenty of issues such as access for away fans, where to place them and when we get a decent FA cup home draw we would need to give a large allocation further complicating this. Personally I think if we want to go as far up the football pyramid we do need a new stadium and not just a rebuild. New stadiums have rejuvenated tons of teams and helped them get to the very top. I’m not sure a rebuild of roots hall could ever achieve that nowadays but do believe a rebuild could help us cement league one level football eventually. The long term future of this club for the kids of today will eventually need a new ground down the line (maybe not 10-15 years) but realistically is it possible to keep updating Roots Hall in the future to the changes that will happen across most other grounds. Feel like what we could get in the next 5 years would be a huge improvement on what we have and that is massively welcomed but with restrictions on what we can already do especially with the west and south stands it is something that will eventually need to be seriously considered.

Think maybe with the North Bank it's having the main singing section behind the goal that people miss. Plus the terracing, obviously.

 

[Napster]

Think maybe with the North Bank it's having the main singing section behind the goal that people miss. Plus the terracing, obviously.

and the acoustics.