SUFC: The Future The regeneration of Roots Hall

[Hawkwell Blue]

Its nice we talking about our future again

If you read some of the comments after last night’s friendly you’d think we haven’t got one

 

[Cricko]

Works nearing completion in the North Bank toilets.

 

[Crawliano]

The east will be the money maker and I find it highly unlikely that the consortium will attempt a full rebuild with a capacity less than 5k.

The big issue here is as you rightly say is it acting as the money maker, and therefore will require spaces for the "money" to congregate before, during and after the game.

Fitting out a modern hospitality area means killing a lot of regular seats, so a stand that could seat 5k generally would probably end up with 2-2.5k GA seats, 1-1.5k corporate seats (of which a % will be convertible use and sold as GA until demand is satisfied) so all you've really done is potentially dropped GA capacity but vastly improved your matchday revenue which is the overall objective.

On average a hospitality punter will need around between 1.3-1.8x the square metre space in their lounge spaces compared to a GA punter and expect direct access from their lounge to the bowl. This means 2 things, 1, you have to create more vomitories in the stand (meaning seat kills) and 2, you lose GA concourse space (you wouldn't expect to have to walk through a crowd of people to get to your seat, it's devaluing the product)

You therefore can't have reduced concourse space for say 2,000 people and have 3,000 seats so this needs to be accounted for as well, so the only way around this is to build up and further back. At this point the cost is going to spiral up and up and be prohibitive, does SUFC really need a 2 tier structure as a main stand right now or even if they were competing in L2?

The only solutions then is to either take a punt and has been mentioned "chase the Championship dream" or play it cagey and go for something that can be adapted. Which then leans toward the more sensible modular design.

I'm not saying 5k isn't possible, but the footprint for a modern stand holding that many will need a lot of work in the car park let alone the stadium to become a reality.

 

[South Bank Hank]

Works nearing completion in the North Bank toilets.
View attachment 33199

You’ll have to stand pretty close for that to threaten you John.

 

[Ramsdenblue]

When installing Electrical Fuse boards into commercial buildings, you will always allow for a 25% spare capacity for future use.

Now imo, this needs to be also for the new stadium, if it is there, it can be used, if it is not there, then it cant be used.

I know what i would rather.

 

[Crawliano]

When installing Electrical Fuse boards into commercial buildings, you will always allow for a 25% spare capacity for future use.

Now imo, this needs to be also for the new stadium, if it is there, it can be used, if it is not there, then it cant be used.

I know what i would rather.

I'm building a new 2 bedroom house. Should I build an additional 35 rooms in case So Solid Crew turn up to stay one weekend? Never know, it might happen...

 

[Mr. Benedict]

I'm building a new 2 bedroom house. Should I build an additional 35 rooms in case So Solid Crew turn up to stay one weekend? Never know, it might happen...

That's a ridiculous analogy, as you're insinuating that you'd build a house with 15 times the room that you would need. No one is saying that we need to build a 10,000 capacity mega-stand, all people are saying is that it'll be better to have some extra capacity upfront rather than having to build it all on later when / if we need it.

 

[Tommy2holes]

The big issue here is as you rightly say is it acting as the money maker, and therefore will require spaces for the "money" to congregate before, during and after the game.

Fitting out a modern hospitality area means killing a lot of regular seats, so a stand that could seat 5k generally would probably end up with 2-2.5k GA seats, 1-1.5k corporate seats (of which a % will be convertible use and sold as GA until demand is satisfied) so all you've really done is potentially dropped GA capacity but vastly improved your matchday revenue which is the overall objective.

On average a hospitality punter will need around between 1.3-1.8x the square metre space in their lounge spaces compared to a GA punter and expect direct access from their lounge to the bowl. This means 2 things, 1, you have to create more vomitories in the stand (meaning seat kills) and 2, you lose GA concourse space (you wouldn't expect to have to walk through a crowd of people to get to your seat, it's devaluing the product)

You therefore can't have reduced concourse space for say 2,000 people and have 3,000 seats so this needs to be accounted for as well, so the only way around this is to build up and further back. At this point the cost is going to spiral up and up and be prohibitive, does SUFC really need a 2 tier structure as a main stand right now or even if they were competing in L2?

The only solutions then is to either take a punt and has been mentioned "chase the Championship dream" or play it cagey and go for something that can be adapted. Which then leans toward the more sensible modular design.

I'm not saying 5k isn't possible, but the footprint for a modern stand holding that many will need a lot of work in the car park let alone the stadium to become a reality.

A 1k-1.5k corporate. That's an incredible amount.

I think the corporate space right now (boxes) only holds about 200 odd.

I can't see that amount of matchday hospitality being needed.

 

[Scamps]

You could make some of it safe standing

 

[overseas shrimper]

I'm building a new 2 bedroom house. Should I build an additional 35 rooms in case So Solid Crew turn up to stay one weekend? Never know, it might happen...

Oh no, not another house analogy. Thought those days were over.

 

[Green Wizard]

Is it too late to a change of mind and move to FF? We could have a brand new stadium built to modern standards with great views from every seat and lots more. Anything you want and no worry about asbestos.

 

[Crawliano]

A 1k-1.5k corporate. That's an incredible amount.

I think the corporate space right now (boxes) only holds about 200 odd.

I can't see that amount of matchday hospitality being needed.

Around 750 of those would be premium GA seats (i.e. convertible use) -
16 boxes of 12 = 192
Directors lounge = 100
Hospitality lounge 500

What you don't do is rebuild the stand, sell your premium seats as GA, give people season tickets, need the space down the line and then have to throw them out of the seats. So you have to go convertible really.

So there's your hospitality portfolio - range for a stadium should be between 5-10% of capacity

 

[Crawliano]

That's a ridiculous analogy, as you're insinuating that you'd build a house with 15 times the room that you would need. No one is saying that we need to build a 10,000 capacity mega-stand, all people are saying is that it'll be better to have some extra capacity upfront rather than having to build it all on later when / if we need it.

I was being facetious

 

[rigsby]

A 1k-1.5k corporate. That's an incredible amount.

I think the corporate space right now (boxes) only holds about 200 odd.

I can't see that amount of matchday hospitality being needed.

Our boxes are rubbish and a fire trap so not a huge demand. I have done plenty of corporate at other grounds where the meal is optional and they all have plenty of uptake.

Take Chesterfield as an example. I've done corporate either side of the ground in the past. Back when we were in L1, we had seats that are £500 per season for the locals. About double a season ticket behind the goal.
You get a fast access lounge, good bar, big screen and good food served on proper plate.....If you want that at extra cost.....They did there own MOM and the players comes up to receive it afterwards.

I would happily pay an extra £200 season or £10 per game for those extras. Plus with smart clean facilities i would arrive early and maybe stay for food and watch game after. I could easily spend an average of £30/40 per game on food and drink. last season I gave up trying to fight for a wobbly pint of Fosters. Burgers are out of the question, so would often not spend a single penny in RH. Although I did make it up when I was in the D2 lounge.

I have seen this work at Gillingham, Shrewsbury, Port Vale, Coventry, Peterborough (great bar with its own bookies) and plenty of other cubs similar to us. There are plenty of Essex Boys and Girls who would happily fill those places up in the new East stand......Whenever that is and what ever size it may be.

 

[Sherif H]

When installing Electrical Fuse boards into commercial buildings, you will always allow for a 25% spare capacity for future use.

Now imo, this needs to be also for the new stadium, if it is there, it can be used, if it is not there, then it cant be used.

I know what i would rather.

The parallel is along the right lines, but allowing for 25% redundancy on an incoming main and within the distribution boards is thousands as opposed to potentially millions when applied to a grandstand.
@Crawliano is worth a listen, as he literally calculates actual requirements against revenue targets for football clubs around the World for a living.

 

[Cricko]

You’ll have to stand pretty close for that to threaten you John.

Baring in mind I am in the West stand i agree I have little chance of reaching that far.

 

[North Banker]

There's previously been a fair bit of talk in this thread about what to do with the South Lower - try to entice people in with safe standing, reduced ticket prices, etc - but I think it forms part of the answer to this redundancy question too. If we're realistic those seats are unlikely to ever be full on a regular basis at this level but they fill up pretty quick when they have to, and that's fine. We might as well just see that as ~10% redundancy at this point.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Our boxes are rubbish and a fire trap so not a huge demand. I have done plenty of corporate at other grounds where the meal is optional and they all have plenty of uptake.

Take Chesterfield as an example. I've done corporate either side of the ground in the past. Back when we were in L1, we had seats that are £500 per season for the locals. About double a season ticket behind the goal.
You get a fast access lounge, good bar, big screen and good food served on proper plate.....If you want that at extra cost.....They did there own MOM and the players comes up to receive it afterwards.

I would happily pay an extra £200 season or £10 per game for those extras. Plus with smart clean facilities i would arrive early and maybe stay for food and watch game after. I could easily spend an average of £30/40 per game on food and drink. last season I gave up trying to fight for a wobbly pint of Fosters. Burgers are out of the question, so would often not spend a single penny in RH. Although I did make it up when I was in the D2 lounge.

I have seen this work at Gillingham, Shrewsbury, Port Vale, Coventry, Peterborough (great bar with its own bookies) and plenty of other cubs similar to us. There are plenty of Essex Boys and Girls who would happily fill those places up in the new East stand......Whenever that is and what ever size it may be.

Not disputing that but no way do we need 1000-1500 corporate spaces.

Maybe 500 to 600.

 

[Ramsdenblue]

I'm building a new 2 bedroom house. Should I build an additional 35 rooms in case So Solid Crew turn up to stay one weekend? Never know, it might happen...

You are right,
but let’s hope the wife suddenly does not want an external hot tub installed and an electric car port, or solar roof Panels installed at a later date or even power to the new granny annexe.
I would allow for that extra 25% spare capacity if was you.

Same as Rootshall, if we are building, why don’t we already build in that spare capacity, that one day will be used.

 

[Crawliano]

Not disputing that but no way do we need 1000-1500 corporate spaces.

Maybe 500 to 600.

Let me break down some very simplistic numbers that I've just crunched...

I'm going to be rather conservative here and assume there's 150 current hosp seats sold at SUFC (incl. boxes)

You've got the seasonal buyers who are already in the building who want seats, then somewhere like 10% of the current GA base will want a hospo ticket (this number is pretty much tried and tested) which includes entry level Hospitality or Premium General Admission Season Tickets.

That's now an additional market of 400 seats

I've just run some very sketchy maths on the local Southend on Sea NUTS 3 data of ~4,000 businesses and applied a fair 4% strike rate to those, then removed 50% who when it comes to pulling the trigger will leave. That's another 65 in the market wanting to buy an average of 3 seats each, that's give or take 200 seats.

I've just got the club to 750 seats just through organic growth from a shiny new facility. Apply some decent marketing to this, get the club moving back through the leagues and you're going to see even more demand. You also want to try and have around 10%-20% of inventory available match-by-match, so this ties in nicely to 1,000 seats.

I'd then reserve 500 seats as convertible seats ready for any surge in demand. If the GA ST's become scarce due to demand, entry level hospitality becomes an even more desirable product.

Not only this, but if you only have few seats, the lounges are either going to be too large (e.g. 3 square metres per person) or too small and not be able to host larger events and fail in the objective of making the club much needed money on non matchdays.

Can't really offer any more than this without going into a full scale feasibility exercise.