A Bit of Fun Phil Brown and SUFC

[fbm]

IF it is true? I am equally annoyed.

You cannot possibly hang a guy on rumour. Come back to me with evidence! Or forget it!

To be fair here Kev, you sometimes can't break the confidence of an "informant" as that could a) get them into hot water and b) guarantee you'll never get information again.

However, if Ken has been told this by what he considers it to be a reliable source, then that gives him and anyone else who knows the source the evidence to maybe make a judgement.

The problem is that to those who don't know, then there is no evidence at all and therefore it's tosh.

I was always taught to believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. No matter how close to the source you are, nothing is ever certain. A classic was where, a few seasons ago, I was given some absolute nailed on information about a certain player signing for us by a source as close to the horse's mouth as you can get - the players Mother - but it didn't happen.

So the dilemma is whether to post any rumours AT ALL, and if the answer to that is no, then this board would be practically silent.

If the answer is yes, then people have to accept that in order to get SOME information, they have to trust the informant. Do you trust the site owners? It's not April 1st, so on balance I would say they are not into mischievous gossip mongering and therefore would think that they, at least, believe their source and are not being sold a pup.

If that's the case, then it demonstrates the manager doesn't really want to be here and that should be something that unites the fans, not divides them.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

Kevin, I completely get where you're coming from but actually the issue is not about the rumour, only people's reaction to it. Rumours are part and parcel of football and long may they continue.

When I hear a rumour (and indeed see one published on SZ), the first thing I think about is the source and whether they have an axe to grind. In this case, I see the source as a solid one, with the initial post from someone with a full understand of what they're doing and rarely inclined to throw things into the public domain without thinking things through. My inclination, based on the above, is to give the rumour some credence, albeit with my mind open to the fact that it remains only a rumour at this stage.

I love your passionate support for the club and your conviction that we should not judge without being party to the full facts. I always feel exactly the same way and I'm often calling on here for people to post with a bit of perspective. However, it's also important not to bury things that we don't like, or even hide things from the public domain on the basis that they're not fully substantiated.

I'd like to think every post in this thread carries the caveat "IF this is true, then..."

I'd also like to think that people might question, IF it was true, WHY it might be true, rationally, before condemning either Brown or Martin. Unfortunately, for me, it's this latter behaviour that always shows people up rather than the posting of rumours!

Good points.
THE SOURCE ..must have an axe to grind whether true or false. Or they would not tell a leading member of SZ.
Agreed?
So without proof of any kind..should I believe a second-hand (at best) source that just has to have an axe to grind?

 

[southend4ever]

It's a rumour from a reliable source. Take the word or **** off!! :nope:

 

[fbm]

Good points.
THE SOURCE ..must have an axe to grind whgether true or false. Or they would not tell a leading member of SZ.
Agreed?
So without proof of any kind..should I believe a second-hand (at best) source that just has to have an axe to grind?

Unless someone at SZ happens to know someone who works for Sheff Utd and who then says "How come your new manager's applied for the vacancy here?"

I have no idea if that's the case by the way, I'm just giving an example of an informant with no axe to grind and no real reason to disbelieve the source.

 

[Tampa Blue]

I have no idea about the transfer embargo..or not. I can understand why there would be one,. That does not make it true..or indeed false.

Well if it is acceptable proof when you are told face to face by the CEO that we were under embargos then this particular 'rumour' is actually fact - however, I accept that I have not seen paperwork confirming it.

The Sheffield rumour I personally do not know to be true or untrue.

Rumours are part and parcel of life and one has the ability to ignore them and discount them or to consider them as POTENTIALLY having merit.

The source of such rumours plays a huge part in deciding whether to ignore or to consider.

From my perspective, this source has credibility, whilst sources that say we're buying Sol Campbell etc do not.

Personally I will hold fire either way and genuinely hope that they are not true as all I want is for our club to succeed.

 

[Grayson]

Good points.
THE SOURCE ..must have an axe to grind whether true or false. Or they would not tell a leading member of SZ.
Agreed?
So without proof of any kind..should I believe a second-hand (at best) source that just has to have an axe to grind?

For a man littering this thread demanding evidence and proof from everybody, you do a lot of assuming yourself.

 

[londonblue]

Actually I wont forget it, Ill use the information Ive heard from a reliable source to form a bigger picture as I always do.

If you wish to ignore any information you dont want to hear then that's your perogative.

Heres a question, do you believe there were transfer embargos last summer ? These were the transfer embargos we said were in place which the club denied and never admitted to.

The thing is, you believe this to be from a reliable source, but for the rest of us, we have to take that on trust because we don't know what the source is. I'm not for 1 second suggesting you let us know who it is, but whilst we don't know, we don't know how reliable a source it is.

Anyone can call anyone a reliable source to make a rumour they start sound more likely. We've had plenty of rumours on here someone's reliable source that have turned out to be rubbish.

Given that, it's not really a surprise that different people have reacted in different ways.

 

[chapperzUK]

Here is proof that Phil Brown went for the Sheffield United job.

Link

  Spoiler:  

The original post didn't say when he applied :smiles:

 

[Kevin Hogg]

It's a rumour from a reliable source. Take the word or **** off!! :nope:

#

Oh really????

 

[fbm]

The thing is, you believe this to be from a reliable source, but for the rest of us, we have to take that on trust because we don't know what the source is. I'm not for 1 second suggesting you let us know who it is, but whilst we don't know, we don't know how reliable as source it is.

Anyone can call anyone a reliable source to make a rumour they start sound more likely. We've had plenty of rumours on here someone's reliable source that have turned out to be rubbish.

Given that, it's not really a surprise that different people have reacted in different ways.

I think you can take it as a given that the owners and moderators will not put stuff on that is likely to be completely untrue because that will just create more work - unpaid - for them moderating the deluge of posts that such news creates... as we can see here.

 

[South Bank Hank]

Good points.
THE SOURCE ..must have an axe to grind whether true or false. Or they would not tell a leading member of SZ.
Agreed?

Potentially but, more importantly, not necessarily. If the people are in continued dialogue anyway (which I understand they are and have been for some time) and they aren't in the habit of lying to each other, then whether they have an axe to grind is irrelevant. For me, the rumour is still worthy of the public domain. How people react to it tells you a lot about our nature and thought processes, but also where we are in our own personal (irrational) love affairs with Southend United.

This could be yesterday's chip paper or that important 10p call in the phone box. Only time will tell.

Incidentally, my axe to grind comment was aimed at the initial poster rather than their source so I take your point.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

I think you can take it as a given that the owners and moderators will not put stuff on that is likely to be completely untrue because that will just create more work - unpaid - for them moderating the deluge of posts that such news creates... as we can see here.

OK I give up. Being an owner or moderator on here ..makes you correct.

Fair enough. they must be right then.

 

[fbm]

Here is proof that Phil Brown went for the Sheffield United job.

Link

  Spoiler:  

The original post didn't say when he applied :smiles:

Yeah, I was thinking that - however, Wilson didn't leave Sheffield until April 10th and Brown had been in charge a week by then.

Was it likely that he would have applied so soon after taking over here? Actually, taking into account the furore and circus surrounding his appointment, Sturrocks departure and Wembley, maybe.

 

[fbm]

OK I give up. Being an owner or moderator on here ..makes you correct.

Fair enough. they must be right then.

Not at all, but it does perhaps give a bit more credence to the source that wouldn't apply to a newbie poster no one had ever heard of.

 

[chapperzUK]

I think you can take it as a given that the owners and moderators will not put stuff on that is likely to be completely untrue because that will just create more work - unpaid - for them moderating the deluge of posts that such news creates... as we can see here.

I'm guessing you haven't seen McNasty and Cricko on a night out with their trophy wives, gold watches and chains around their body getting out of their custom made Lamborghini as they hit the bingo clubs in Southend. They is well minted! :winking:

 

[Jam_Man]

Not at all, but it does perhaps give a bit more credence to the source that wouldn't apply to a newbie poster no one had ever heard of.

Especially when the information posted in the past has always had substance.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

I agree that McNasty & Cricko will have excellent contacts.
Earlier in this thread a poster submitted that Anton Johnson's daughter says he was "stitched up". I rather rudely and without thinking ..mocked that comment.

Having thought about it. Maybe he was? My source's at the time were impeccable and information I received all added up. I was a credible mouthpiece.
Those that assumed power after the demise of AJ - had all helped me with information and advice.
Was the information given in the best interests of Southend United? Or by people using a passionate supporter..with a voice? I have no idea.

I believe that people often let those with "a voice" know rather more than others. In the absolute hope it will be heard! It may or may not be true. It will always further the cause of ..the source!

 

[Jam_Man]

Im not sure who would benefit from the knowledge PB looking for another job though, its not really going to harm Ron Martin, it would only really harm PB's reputation here.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

Im not sure who would benefit from the knowledge PB looking for another job though, its not really going to harm Ron Martin, it would only really harm PB's reputation here.

It is wholly disruptive. It does not help RM to have a rumour that he cannot even appoint a manager that will not apply for another job so soon. It makes him look a poor judge of character.

It makes absolute sense.

I refer to my comments above.

 

[chapperzUK]

I agree that McNasty & Cricko will have excellent contacts.
Earlier in this thread a poster submitted that Anton Johnson's daughter says he was "stitched up". I rather rudely and without thinking ..mocked that comment.

Having thought about it. Maybe he was? My source's at the time were impeccable and information I received all added up. I was a credible mouthpiece.
Those that assumed power after the demise of AJ - had all helped me with information and advice.
Was the information given in the best interests of Southend United? Or by people using a passionate supporter..with a voice? I have no idea.

I believe that people often let those with "a voice" know rather more than others. In the absolute hope it will be heard! It may or may not be true. It will always further the cause of ..the source!

I don't know any "sources" within the club, but I've always wondered why someone who is involved in the club and ITK would tell someone. That isn't a stab at anyone, but the only way I can see that someone would say information like this would either be personal gain (i.e. like you said, they could gain power from it), business (i.e. it is Chris Phillip's job to get news) and/or they believe that this information should be in the public domain and fans have the right to know.

Either way, it does risk their position and they could lose out on any future ITK information, so I can see why sources can't be revealed.