Brexit negotiations thread

[rigsby]

Ha! I always used to wonder, sitting around and watching those awful old WW2 films on Sunday afternoon TV (back in the 60's) whether German kids were doing the same thing.

Agree with your concluding point too,BTW.

Hopefully they were on organise trips to their local concentration camp and feeling totally ashamed.

Lets face it you cant make jolly little family film about the SS Einsatzgruppen and their high jinks on the eastern front.

So why are those WW2 films so awful?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

1.Hopefully they were on organise trips to their local concentration camp and feeling totally ashamed.

Lets face it you cant make jolly little family film about the SS Einsatzgruppen and their high jinks on the eastern front.

2.So why are those WW2 films so awful?

2.The sort of blind patriotism that inspired most of those films had become very unfashionable for teenagers by the 60's.

1.BTW, some of the nicest Germans I've ever met and/or worked with, did I imagine feel very ashamed about what some of their parents' generation had done.It wasn't something I ever felt the need to talk about with them though.

 

[blues exile]

Hopefully they were on organise trips to their local concentration camp and feeling totally ashamed.

Lets face it you cant make jolly little family film about the SS Einsatzgruppen and their high jinks on the eastern front.

So why are those WW2 films so awful?

Three main reasons:
1) Unrealistic depiction of war more as a game of cricket than bloody conflict.
2) Riddled with class. The heroes, Gibson, Bader etc invariably officer class. Working class soldiers usually only there to act as embarrassing comic relief.
3) As Tangled has already said, the blind patriotism,
The immaturity and jingoistic nature of these films grated on me as a teenager and it was one hell of a shock when Kubrick's 'Paths of Glory' appeared, just about the first film of the 50s to take the subject of war seriously.

 

[rigsby]

2.The sort of blind patriotism that inspired most of those films had become very unfashionable for teenagers by the 60's.

1.BTW, some of the nicest Germans I've ever met and/or worked with, did I imagine feel very ashamed about what some of their parents' generation had done. It wasn't something I ever felt the need to talk about with them though.

Yes I guessed you would see it that way. Anyone who prefers Martin McGuiness over some spitfire pilots would see British victory as something else to hate.

You should have had a chat with the Germans about their recent history. I always did on my Football exchanges. They are one of the few European countries that genuinely like us. Probably to do with how well we behaved in victory.

They realise how lucky they were that the Russians never got to rule the whole country. Remember Stalin wanted to execute all the German officers at the end of the war but was stopped by Churchill.

 

[rigsby]

Three main reasons:
1) Unrealistic depiction of war more as a game of cricket than bloody conflict.
2) Riddled with class. The heroes, Gibson, Bader etc invariably officer class. Working class soldiers usually only there to act as embarrassing comic relief.
3) As Tangled has already said, the blind patriotism,
The immaturity and jingoistic nature of these films grated on me as a teenager and it was one hell of a shock when Kubrick's 'Paths of Glory' appeared, just about the first film of the 50s to take the subject of war seriously.

Who says films have to taken seriously. Looking at your other points you probably find Blackadder goes Fourth offensive.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yes I guessed you would see it that way. Anyone who prefers Martin McGuiness over some spitfire pilots would see British victory as something else to hate.

You should have had a chat with the Germans about their recent history. I always did on my Football exchanges. They are one of the few European countries that genuinely like us. Probably to do with how well we behaved in victory.

They realise how lucky they were that the Russians never got to rule the whole country. Remember Stalin wanted to execute all the German officers at the end of the war but was stopped by Churchill.

Who says films have to taken seriously. Looking at your other points you probably find Blackadder goes Fourth offensive.

It so happens, that my father who fought in WW2,as a Sergeant in the Royal Engineers in Bomb Disposal wasn't much of a fan of WW2 films, either.In fact the only one I remember he really liked was The Guns of Navarone.He did love Westerns,however.For the escapism I suppose.

We do seem to be getting a bit off the thread topic of Brexit here.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

The EU have agreed on visa-free travel for Brits even if we leave with no deal. Another Remainer fear quashed - don't panic, you can still go to your villa in France.

 

[rigsby]

It so happens, that my father who fought in WW2,as a Sergeant in the Royal Engineers in Bomb Disposal wasn't much of a fan of WW2 films, either.In fact the only one I remember he really liked was The Guns of Navarone.He did love Westerns,however.For the escapism I suppose.

We do seem to be getting a bit off the thread topic of Brexit here.

It was Exile who came out with the war films theory. Your quite right we have now proved it was nonsense so lets move back on topic.

So why do you have no answers to EU large scale and systemic corruption ?

 

[blues exile]

The EU have agreed on visa-free travel for Brits even if we leave with no deal. Another Remainer fear quashed - don't panic, you can still go to your villa in France.

Maximum 90 days in any 180.

 

[blues exile]

It was Exile who came out with the war films theory. Your quite right we have now proved it was nonsense so lets move back on topic.

So why do you have no answers to EU large scale and systemic corruption ?

Do you think the EU invented corruption and that it does not happen outside that organisation? And, as I have said before, who initiates the corruption?

 

[rigsby]

The EU have agreed on visa-free travel for Brits even if we leave with no deal. Another Remainer fear quashed - don't panic, you can still go to your villa in France.

Remainer fear is justified. forget visas, there wont be any villas in France after WW3

 

[blues exile]

It was Exile who came out with the war films theory. Your quite right we have now proved it was nonsense so lets move back on topic.

Not nonsense at all, highly relevant to how national consciousness is shaped by media and culture. The prevailing jingoism in those films is a manifestation of how we see ourselves in relation to Europe, particularly Germany and this becomes apparent in the 'stand up to Brussels' rhetoric and the old favourite about speaking to these foreigners in loud voice repeating the same thing over and over again and they wil give in, basically May's preferred, indeed only, method of 'negotiation'.

 

[Swiss Tony]

[/QUOTE

We stood up and defeated Fascism and made films showing how we did it,so what, remember Germany twice brought the World into conflict.
I for one don't give a shiny **** what Germany and the EU think and remember this, more British soilders lay 6ft under Belgium soil then anywhere else on the planet saving European necks.

 

[blues exile]

A perfect illustration of why the UK is now poised to jump off a cliff, blindfolded, bound and gagged.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This is worth a read on the collapse of our political classes

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

This is worth a read in the collapse of our political classes

On surely?

 

[Bielzibubz]

Personal advisor to Tony Bliar for 10 years and MD of Morgan Stanley, that well know bastion of banking morals and leadership. Not very biased is he?

For every Remain, the UK is doomed, post or link that's put up there can be posted just as many from just as biased Bexit campaigners. It's a continuous circle and a pointless exercise on here because no one is ever going to change their minds on it and just adds to the discourse surrounding the whole thing.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Personal advisor to Tony Bliar for 10 years and MD of Morgan Stanley, that well know bastion of banking morals and leadership. Not very biased is he?

For every Remain, the UK is doomed, post or link that's put up there can be posted just as many from just as biased Bexit campaigners. It's a continuous circle and a pointless exercise on here because no one is ever going to change their minds on it and just adds to the discourse surrounding the whole thing.

Which is true and very problematic for the UK as we are still split down the middle and the notion of consensus is all well and good but nowhere to be seen.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

JONATHAN POWELL ,of course, as former head of Blair's office at number 10, has an axe to grind against Jeremy Corybn.TBF I also saw him admit that he was part of the problem (Iraq anyone?) earlier in the week on Politics live.He also attributed the decline of the Civil Service to the increasing use of SPADS in British politics.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Personal advisor to Tony Bliar for 10 years and MD of Morgan Stanley, that well know bastion of banking morals and leadership. Not very biased is he?

For every Remain, the UK is doomed, post or link that's put up there can be posted just as many from just as biased Bexit campaigners. It's a continuous circle and a pointless exercise on here because no one is ever going to change their minds on it and just adds to the discourse surrounding the whole thing.

Don't you at least have some sympathy with this conclusion?

"Above all, we need a new generation of political leaders, rather than a leader of the opposition nearly in his seventies and a prime minister in her sixties. We need political leaders with a stake in the future to lead us out of this mess to a new sense of optimism. "