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Brexit negotiations thread

It's worth nothing really and stop sulking.

The EU wont exist. Even remainers can now see clearly see this. You have to ask yourself what are their real motives for not accepting the result, its certainly not to improve the life young people or for the real working class.
 
Both sides are gambling to get what they want. May goes back to the EU trying to change the backstop, she won't be too bothered that they say no, as they badly want her deal with the backstop. She then comes back and says the EU wouldn't budge. She now knows that Parliament doesn't want a no deal as voted against tonight. Her nightmare deal now has more chance of going through, with probably a tiny concession or Two from the EU which suits her as a remainer and the EU, who want us half in half out. This has always been half the trouble. May and the EU are after the same thing.

It's quite clear that the EU will not re-open negotiations on the backstop.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47052227

IMO,this now makes a no-deal Brexit a much more likely option, than May's "nightmare deal" being accepted.

There will be a political price to pay for this Tory Brexit,especially if we crash out of the EU at the end of March on WTO terms.

Edit.While it is true that the Spelman amendment was passed yesterday by the Commons,which indicated (narrowly) a lack of support for a no-deal Brexit, this does not have any legally binding force.It would require another vote sometime after Feb 14th to be brought into law.
 
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The EU wont exist. Even remainers can now see clearly see this. You have to ask yourself what are their real motives for not accepting the result, its certainly not to improve the life young people or for the real working class.

Not this reluctant leaver.The EU have already negotiated a withdrawal agreement with the UK that has May's signature on it.Yesterday's "result" as you put it, was all about the Tory party negotiating with itself not with the EU. The Brady amendment won't take long to unravel.

BTW,what are the "alternative arrangements" that you forsee happening, other than May's already negotiated Brexit deal?
 
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Not this reluctant leaver.The EU have already negotiated a withdrawal agreement with the UK that has May's signature on it.Yesterday's "result" as you put it, was all about the Tory party negotiating with itself not with the EU. The Brady amendment won't take long to unravel.

BTW,what are the "alternative arrangements" that you forsee happening other than May's already negotiated Brexit deal?

Your not a Remainer your an expat living in Spain who for his own selfish reasons want Britain to stay. And why wouldn't you when us Brits pay for your dinner. I would be the same if I was a Spaniard.

As for your question....The deadline would be extended if the Tories had there way but of course as us true brits who live here and therefore have our finger on the pulse can tell you. The longer the delay the angrier the mood grows amongst the people who believe in democracy. JC has found his voters are deserting him so he will now want a quick and a crap deal. That's why he suddenly wants to talk. If there is along delay then there is time for anew party to be launched. One that 17m people might vote for.

The EU are afraid of a no deal because that would expose the myth that is the EU and other countries would follow us out and the whole scam would collapse. So I guess a poor deal with a second referendum called for without the option of a no deal on the paper would suit all three of the frauds.... The EU, May and JC.
 
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Your not a Remainer your an expat living in Spain who for his own selfish reasons want Britain to stay. And why wouldn't you when us Brits pay for your dinner. I would be the same if I was a Spaniard.

As for your question....The deadline would be extended if the Tories had there way but of course as us true brits who live here and therefore have our finger on the pulse can tell you. The longer the delay the angrier the mood grows amongst the people who believe in democracy. JC has found his voters are deserting him so he will now want a quick and a crap deal. That's why he suddenly wants to talk. If there is along delay then there is time for anew party to be launched. One that 17m people might vote for.

The EU are afraid of a no deal because that would expose the myth that is the EU and other countries would follow us out and the whole scam would collapse. So I guess a poor deal with a second referendum called for without the option of a no deal on the paper would suit all three of the frauds.... The EU, May and JC.


1.You forget I'm a proud UK passport holder,which gives me a dog in this particular fight.BTW,what part of "reluctant leaver" don't you understand? I accepted some time ago (June 17th 2016 actually) that the UK wouldn't be remaining in the EU.

2.Unfortunately,the Tories are not negotiating with themselves (as they were last night) but with the EU.

3.Labour basically wants a soft Brexit-staying in a/the customs union-which is a much more sensible policy than the Tories hard Brexit policy of leaving the customs union and single market.

4.The notion that the EU "are afraid of a no deal" is a myth put about by Leavers ,such as yourself.Granted a no-deal scenario would hurt the EU but it would hurt the UK much more.

5.We'll see how this pans out but I doubt very much there'll be another referendum.Some form of May's deal or no-deal remains highly plausible though.
 
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1.You forget I'm a proud UK passport holder,which gives me a dog in this particular fight.BTW,what part of "reluctant leaver" don't you understand? I accepted some time ago (June 17th 2016 actually) that the UK wouldn't be remaining in the EU.

2.Unfortunately,the Tories are not negotiating with themselves (as they were last night) but with the EU.

3.Labour basically wants a soft Brexit-staying in a/the customs union-which is a much more sensible policy than the Tories hard Brexit policy of leaving the customs union and single market.

4.The notion that the EU "are afraid of a no deal" is a myth put about by Leavers ,such as yourself.Granted a no-deal scenario would hurt the EU but it would hurt the UK much more.

5.We'll see how this pans out but I doubt very much there'll be another referendum.Some form of May's deal or no-deal remains highly plausible though.

3. Any deal that includes staying in a customs union is not leaving the EU. You're clearly as confused as some Labourites.

4. You clearly haven't done a lot of research regarding the recent history of the inner workings of the EU/Euro Group have you. One member leaving the club will have dire consequences for this house of cards that's been built on the collective dept of the weak, greed of the many and corruption of the institution, never mind one that contributes so much to the pot as the UK.
 
1.You forget I'm a proud UK passport holder,which gives me a dog in this particular fight.BTW,what part of "reluctant leaver" don't you understand? I accepted some time ago (June 17th 2016 actually) that the UK wouldn't be remaining in the EU.

2.Unfortunately,the Tories are not negotiating with themselves (as they were last night) but with the EU.

3.Labour basically wants a soft Brexit-staying in a/the customs union-which is a much more sensible policy than the Tories hard Brexit policy of leaving the customs union and single market.

4.The notion that the EU "are afraid of a no deal" is a myth put about by Leavers ,such as yourself.Granted a no-deal scenario would hurt the EU but it would hurt the UK much more.

5.We'll see how this pans out but I doubt very much there'll be another referendum.Some form of May's deal or no-deal remains highly plausible though.
 
3. Any deal that includes staying in a customs union is not leaving the EU. You're clearly as confused as some Labourites.

4. You clearly haven't done a lot of research regarding the recent history of the inner workings of the EU/Euro Group have you. One member leaving the club will have dire consequences for this house of cards that's been built on the collective dept of the weak, greed of the many and corruption of the institution, never mind one that contributes so much to the pot as the UK.

IIRC (and I do), the question put to the British people in June 2016 was do you want to remain in or leave the EU?There was no supplementary question about exactly how the UK was meant to exit the EU.That's precisely what HMG has been so ineptly trying to deliver on for the last two and a half years.

The idea that the EU will somehow collapse because the UK walks off to "the sunny uplands" at the end of March 2019,is,of course,a key part of the Brexit fantasy myth, that you and other Leavers have peddled so disingenously, ever since (and before) the referendum.Wake up and smell the coffee-a reality check is coming your way quite soon now.
 
Where to start? What seems to be clear in the past few days is that Corbyn has a similar problem to May, in trying to control his party. I believe both will find the next few weeks rather uncomfortable.
The Labour rebels who failed to support the Cooper/Boles amendment look as though they will hardly be sanctioned at all. This will surely encourage May (and the Tories) to try and bribe those rebels into supporting her deal. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/may-woos-labour-mps-with-cash-to-back-brexit-09chnckrn (I don't know whether that page will be blocked?) Maybe they need to look over at the Lib Dems bench(es) and understand what eventually happens, 'when you sell your soul to the Devil!' :Winking: Meanwhile, Corbyn, realised the enormous error he had made in making a meeting , for cross party talks with May, conditional. He must have been hugely relieved to jump upon on that weak amendment wishing to avoid a no deal, to backtrack on what he said............but his judgement has again been questioned and has come up short. I don't think it will become any easier as the cruch comes closer and he will be dragged (kicking and screaming? :Winking:) into making decisions he's been skillfully avoiding over the past months and years.
May? Well, May still clings to her deal............what else has she got? In the end it is hard to see the EU offering her more than comforting words, especially as she has little to offer by way of 'alternative arrangements' to replace the backstop..........even if the withdrawal agreement was to be re-opened.................which I don't think it will be.
So that deal will likely come back to the HoC with little change. I expect that May will find the warmth of the 'Brady victory' will suddenly seem a long time ago. DUP and ERG support will largely disappear and my guess is that she will not be able to bribe enough Labour votes to get it through. THEN, I assume, things will start to get interesting! NO ONE wants a no deal ( I'm refering to the EU & UK........not the ERG or the hard Brexiters on here!) but of course there is a danger it could happen by accident. Personally, I think someone will crack before then and it is likely to be on the UK side. What that eventuality will result in? God only knows.............a General Election? a second referendum?..........or just a delay in departure? The EU claims it will not give an extension to March 29th without good reason, equally, May states she won't alter that date. Both, I suspect, are SO desperate to avoid a no deal that the leaving date could just be pushed back...... and pushed back............and pushed back???
Whatever the outcome, for a political animal, we are going through an incredibly fascinating time in our history. Like a good thriller, I'm almost dreading the conclusion, I can't turn the pages fast enough and certainly can't put the book down.
 
Hahahahahaha! I really saw this article AFTER having written the above piece!

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rexit-may-have-to-be-delayed-to-avoid-no-deal

Yogi, I’m not sure whether you read my earlier post making predictions for how this will all play out? :Smile:

Well, Tuesdays votes in parliament, Tory and DUP unity behind the focus now on amending provisions to maintain no hard border on Ireland and any deal to be struck at the 11th hour before (or on) 29 March including a temporary extension of a matter of a few weeks to allow necessary legislation to be passed are all on track to be what happens.

Don’t forget, extending now or ruling out no deal would not bring the EU back to the negotiating table and for that reason alone it was vital we didn’t do that on Tuesday. That doesn’t mean that we won’t extend or that the government wants no deal. It is purely a matter of timing because the EU will not budge until they are forced to and they will at that point, mark my words. What will happen will be a face saving measure that allows UK integrity to be maintained but the EU to claim that the border is protected. It is not all the details of the technology, for example, which is absolutely deliverable but will take a year or two to develop, that is being worked out now it is purely a political mechanism for how we and the EU will agree an end to the transition period. My money is on the can being kicked down the road on that by it being agreed that there will be some kind of regular review / decision points on progress during the transition period regarding its extension or end. That is totally possible and very easy, it just takes the political will to do it - and the EU will get there in the end (but only right at the end).
 
IIRC (and I do), the question put to the British people in June 2016 was do you want to remain in or leave the EU?There was no supplementary question about exactly how the UK was meant to exit the EU.That's precisely what HMG has been so ineptly trying to deliver on for the last two and a half years.

The idea that the EU will somehow collapse because the UK walks off to "the sunny uplands" at the end of March 2019,is,of course,a key part of the Brexit fantasy myth, that you and other Leavers have peddled so disingenously, ever since (and before) the referendum.Wake up and smell the coffee-a reality check is coming your way quite soon now.

Thank you, you've just proved my point. You're lack of knowledge regarding the last 60 odd years of EU hegemony is truly astounding..................but predictable.
 
IIRC (and I do), the question put to the British people in June 2016 was do you want to remain in or leave the EU?There was no supplementary question about exactly how the UK was meant to exit the EU.That's precisely what HMG has been so ineptly trying to deliver on for the last two and a half years.

The idea that the EU will somehow collapse because the UK walks off to "the sunny uplands" at the end of March 2019,is,of course,a key part of the Brexit fantasy myth, that you and other Leavers have peddled so disingenously, ever since (and before) the referendum.Wake up and smell the coffee-a reality check is coming your way quite soon now.

What leaving meant was made abundantly clear in the leaflet so kindly distributed by Cameron's government. May's deal comes nowhere close.
No one says the EU will collapse just because the UK leaves, but it may help. It seems the disenchantment with Brussels is growing and the forthcoming elections may or may not reinforce that belief. Hopefully the voters of the EU states will show Brussels that their days of ruling are coming to an end.
 
The pathological hatred of the EU displayed by some posters is very curious and to examine why is an interesting process in trying to understand why the institution arouses so much hostility. To take the issue of alleged corruption we need to bear in mind that it is synonymous with the way that big business works and usually, the EU will be the corruptee rather than the corruptor. Corruption will continue to be part of how the wheels of commerce are oiled whether we leave the EU or not. Presumably to Brexiteers home grown corruption is preferable to the continental variety, at least it will be our own. Which leads on to the other big issue of sovereignty and control, which seems to be central to the resentment the EU excites. At the heart of this is clearly the British sense of identity, as though somehow or other, the other countries in the 27 do not share our nationalistic sentiments, and ours is more important to us than it is to a Frenchman or a German. The UK has always been a negative force in the EU, sniping and niggling from the sidelines instead of being committed to the project and the war of attrition carried out for years by the foreign resident owned 'British press' has obviously played a part in forming the negative narrative which is regularly trotted out by those who want to see it fail. The historical judgement of the EU will I believe count it as force for good in the main, a testament to how much more cooperation and pooling resources can achieve compared to trade wars and worse, military conflict between nations on the same continent. Of course it is far from perfect but I suggest it has civilised values which are palpably not shared by the USA , Russia nor China. The UK, having famously lost an empire has still not found a role in the modern world and to try to go it alone, deal or no deal, is an act of national self harm that will have incalculable consequences, especially for those most vulnerable. One repellent aspect of the debate has been the thinly disguised strand of racism that has been released into the nation's bloodstream. The end of freedom of movement will be largely symbolic, many East Europeans are either going back home or moving to more congenial surroundings but the underlying racism that has now been given the cloak of respectability will only get worse as new scapegoats will need to be found for the impending disaster of Brexit.
 

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