Brexit negotiations thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

According to the FT this morning, the Japanese don't appear to be too rushed to copy and paste the same deal with us as they made with the EU, in spite of the subtlety of our diplomatic approach! Why can't they recognise our omnipotence...................after all the Swiss and the Faroe Islands buckled fairly quickly. Maybe our negotiating skills are not up to what they should be, with Messrs Hunt and Fox..................why not send Grayling out to assist. That would be a negotiating force to make Japan tremble at the knees and sign up post-haste!
What's more they could send him out on our new aircraft carrier, a bit of gunboat diplomacy is what's needed to bring these johnny foreigners into line. With that we could knock over China at the same time as Japan.

The business with China is extraordinary. At a time when we need to reach out to the rest of the world to replace the trade we are rejecting with the EU and our Defence Secretary offends China and out Chancellor has to cancel a trip there. Great timing for other departments to get on the incompetence bandwagon.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Would all those that were insinuating or downright blaming Brexit uncertainty or Brexit itself on Honda's decision to close it's plant in Swindon hereby like to offer their sincere apologies to those of us that said different?


No? Didn't think so..............

 

[Blueronron]

Would all those that were insinuating or downright blaming Brexit uncertainty or Brexit itself on Honda's decision to close it's plant in Swindon hereby like to offer their sincere apologies to those of us that said different?


No? Didn't think so..............

Well according to the Tory paper, edited by ex chancellor Gideon Osborne Evening Standard, they seem to think it is, so I will pause to apologise if you don't mind, ok he was remain so some biased reporting, but its along the same lines

 

[KevinJH]

Some could say that the writing was on the wall for the Swindon plant when the ultimately devastating reports came out regarding the effects of diesel on peoples' health way back in 2012. At least the alarm bells should have been sounding and appropriate forward-thinking actions put into effect asap after. That, along with, as I understand, two unused - or under-used - production lines wouldn't have instilled much faith for a financially healthy future for the plant. As usual, the employee's and associated trades will suffer - lets all hope that the 'promised help' is forthcoming to them.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Would all those that were insinuating or downright blaming Brexit uncertainty or Brexit itself on Honda's decision to close it's plant in Swindon hereby like to offer their sincere apologies to those of us that said different?


No? Didn't think so..............

I stand to be corrected but from what I understand, it was a factor in their decision. Firstly, I believe the government were supposed to inform Honda, at the end of last year, of their likely trading situation post-Brexit, which they apparently didn't do. This thus led to uncertainty for the future. At the same time of course, Japan had signed their trade deal with the EU and consequently were less reliant on the UK as a trade conduit into the EU. Added to that was the situation that, post Brexit, the UK would be a third country as far as the EU was concerned and thus car exports into the EU would quite possibly carry a tariff................ meaning continuing car production in the UK would be uneconomic.
It was, as Honda explained, also due in large part to changes in global car production. It does however leave you wondering whether, without Brexit, the decision to close would have been that easy for Honda..............we probably will never know.

 

[Bielzibubz]

You can put whatever spin you want on it, and I expect you to but.......

Honda said the move was due to global changes in the car industry and the need to launch electric vehicles, and it had nothing to do with Brexit ..... Don't know what part of that you don't quite understand.

"This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about" ...... Or that bit.

""We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to" ..... or indeed this bit.

Also, the negotiations for the Japan/EU trade deal started in 2013 and it was always likely construction of Japanese cars made in Europe and the UK were going to move. The current global and European situation regarding the decline in new car sales, and especially diesels, and the general forecast in a general economic slow down has confirmed what Honda has been planning from way before Brexit even became a word.

Honda are also closing a factory in Turkey for exactly the same reasons. It has tariff free acces to the EU and is 5000 miles closer to the EU than Japan but hey ho, don't let a few facts get in the way of a good spin story eh.

Edit....oh and this from the FT....that well know rag (sarcasm)

"Politicians insinuating the Honda decision is linked to Britain leaving the EU are being disingenuous. Honda is not closing its UK factory in favour of another plant inside the EU, or with more certain access to it. It appears to be closing Swindon when production of the Civic model comes to an end by 2022, and is also closing its plant in Turkey serving that non-EU domestic market. Honda production is returning to Japan for the same reason Nissan production is returning, and Dyson production is heading to Singapore: these countries have new free trade deals with the EU. Japan’s deal will slash tariffs on cars exported to the EU from 10 per cent to zero by 2027. Singapore’s deal also eliminates duties and taxes, as well as technical and non-tariff barriers to trade"

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

My Dad worked for Ford for 40 years yet I know nothing about cars, but from a start point of no knowledge I would have thought that a factory making diesel cars could be adapted to make petrol or electric cars if 'diesel' was all there was to it.

 

[Bielzibubz]

My Dad worked for Ford for 40 years yet I know nothing about cars, but from a start point of no knowledge I would have thought that a factory making diesel cars could be adapted to make petrol or electric cars if 'diesel' was all there was to it.

Different power drive layout. Different and stronger/stiffer subframe. Different weight distribution for that frame so different upper body design. Different drive train. Different compartment layout due to space requirements for the batteries. The list is endless

Takes a whole different production line and supply chain too.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Another book I read after coming across his name while researching Brexit back in 2015 and one I can strongly recommend is 'The Euro And It's Threat to the Future of Europe' by exceptionally well respected Nobel prize winner and economist Joseph Stiglix

This is not some anti EU tome written by a journalist with an axe to grind and chip on his shoulder nor is it a politically biased rant by an ex politician that didn't quite make in the corridors of power.

I urge all those looking for some clarity and insight into why we find ourselves where we are now to give it a go.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Honda and all the other car companies that have/want to pull out of the UK, surely it's simple - tell them, if you pull out then your cars will be subject to a tax levy when imported here to sell? Stay and that won't apply!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Honda and all the other car companies that have/want to pull out of the UK, surely it's simple - tell them, if you pull out then your cars will be subject to a tax levy when imported here to sell? Stay and that won't apply!

You could, but threats of that kind are not generally welcomed by businesses and you would likely kill off more future investment/jobs from others than you would save at Honda - probably by a high order of magnitude.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

[QUOTE="Bielzibubz, post: 2117767, member: 922"]Another book I read after coming across his name while researching Brexit back in 2015 and one I can strongly recommend is 'The Euro And It's Threat to the Future of Europe' by exceptionally well respected Nobel prize winner and economist Joseph Stiglix

This is not some anti EU tome written by a journalist with an axe to grind and chip on his shoulder nor is it a politically biased rant by an ex politician that didn't quite make in the corridors of power.

I urge all those looking for some clarity and insight into why we find ourselves where we are now to give it a go.[/QUOTE]


It's been lying at the bottom of a stack of books in our lounge that I keep meaning to read but never quite get round to. Don't think I'd like it somehow.Though I've liked some of his more liberal books on economics in the past.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The reason why Honda haven't linked their pull out at Swindow with Brexit, is apparently because they don't want to upset their customer base. (It's estimated that some 50% of Honda purchasers voted in favour of Brexit).

 

[Swiss Tony]

The reason why Honda haven't linked their pull out at Swindow with Brexit, is apparently because they don't want to upset their customer base. (It's estimated that some 50% of Honda purchasers voted in favour of Brexit).

Oh Gawd!!!

 

[Ricky Otto]

I've heard that the Swindon employees are moving to the Slough branch