Brexit negotiations thread

[Bielzibubz]

And that's also forgetting the 164 Greek suicides directly attributed to the untold misery through austerity inflicted and enforced on them by the Euro Group.

 

[blues exile]

And that's also forgetting the 164 Greek suicides directly attributed to the untold misery through austerity inflicted and enforced on them by the Euro Group.

How does that compare to suicides in the Uk as a result of the Tories austerity years I wonder.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

How does that compare to suicides in the Uk as a result of the Tories austerity years I wonder.

I'm not sure what the official figures are for suicides accompanied by a note explicitly or indirectly blaming government fiscal policy since 2010? It would be interesting though - do you have a link please?

 

[rigsby]

Glad you mentioned the Balkans because it is difficult to imagine wars in that region with the constituent nations being part of the EU. What do you suggest the EU, without an army, was supposed to about those wars of the90s anyway, what was NATO's role?

The EU could have prevented it without having to use an army....It would take to long to explain to someone who believes an EU army would work and even if I did you would blame Margret Thatcher or James Dyson.

 

[blues exile]

The EU could have prevented it without having to use an army....It would take to long to explain to someone who believes an EU army would work and even if I did you would blame Margret Thatcher or James Dyson.

In other words no answer at all!

 

[blues exile]

I'm not sure what the official figures are for suicides accompanied by a note explicitly or indirectly blaming government fiscal policy since 2010? It would be interesting though - do you have a link please?

Not likely there would be official figures provided not surprisingly. However there is wealth of research, data and opinion on the internet which suggests a big rise and as part of the wider picture of lower life expectancy and rise in premature deaths as a result of government policies.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Not likely there would be official figures provided not surprisingly. However there is wealth of research, data and opinion on the internet which suggests a big rise and as part of the wider picture of lower life expectancy and rise in premature deaths as a result of government policies.

Grateful for a link or two making the specific direct causal link, from non-political but credible sources please (i.e. not a 'left leaning think tank' or other similarly pointless waffleshop).

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I see that the number of MPs voting in the Commons today are a bit less than usual, as a Labour MP has today been sentenced to three months in prison. No doubt that was a racist judgment and this is a racist post, not to mention misogynist, and that the actions of the MP in question were entirely understandable and in fact probably a result of government policy since 2010 or the Brexit vote.

 

[blues exile]

Grateful for a link or two making the specific direct causal link, from non-political but credible sources please (i.e. not a 'left leaning think tank' or other similarly pointless waffleshop).

Just type in 'suicides as a result of government austerity' and you will get a wide range of sites including BBC who I assume you consider impartial. Guardian and Independent presumably considered hotbeds of rabid left wing ideology.

 

[blues exile]

I see that the number of MPs voting in the Commons today are a bit less than usual, as a Labour MP has today been sentenced to three months in prison. No doubt that was a racist judgment and this is a racist post, not to mention misogynist, and that the actions of the MP in question were entirely understandable and in fact probably a result of government policy since 2010 or the Brexit vote.

Not very good at political satire are you, considering the whip was withdrawn when she was found guilty.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm not sure what the official figures are for suicides accompanied by a note explicitly or indirectly blaming government fiscal policy since 2010? It would be interesting though - do you have a link please?

I've not read any of these links yet but I think this is what you are requesting

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ied-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures


https://www.thepeoplesnewsonline.co...ed-to-admit-more-than-111000-claimant-deaths/

 

[rigsby]

I see that the number of MPs voting in the Commons today are a bit less than usual, as a Labour MP has today been sentenced to three months in prison. No doubt that was a racist judgment and this is a racist post, not to mention misogynist, and that the actions of the MP in question were entirely understandable and in fact probably a result of government policy since 2010 or the Brexit vote.

Incredibly she can keep her job and we will still be paying her. Most people in the public sector would of course be sacked and their pension frozen until they are 67.

That parliamentary privilege extends beyond the walls of Westminster.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've not read any of these links yet but I think this is what you are requesting

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ied-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures


https://www.thepeoplesnewsonline.co...ed-to-admit-more-than-111000-claimant-deaths/

Thanks A_SS, but they're not quite what I meant. Those are newspaper articles in the left leaning press commenting on figures that 3% of claimants of Incapacity Benefit or Severe Disability Allowance died during the 3 year period, which was the subject of the Freedom of Information request by a disability campaigner.

While undoubtedly horrendous, I might suggest that this could be a fairly typical mortality rate among that societal group and we would need evidence over a longer period that government policy in that period had caused a statistically significant change in mortality rate.

There also is no link to suicide, just mortality, so those are not directly relevant to the assertion blues exile made.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just type in 'suicides as a result of government austerity' and you will get a wide range of sites including BBC who I assume you consider impartial. Guardian and Independent presumably considered hotbeds of rabid left wing ideology.

I didn’t mean from journalists at all, I meant research papers that prove the case being made

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

See both the Cooper and Brady amendments have been selcted by the speaker to be voted on by MP's later this evening.According to the editor of the Sun on Politics live,both have a good chance of being passed.The Cooper amendment will have a three line Labour whip and the Brady amendment has unofficial government support.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I'm not sure what the official figures are for suicides accompanied by a note explicitly or indirectly blaming government fiscal policy since 2010? It would be interesting though - do you have a link please?

No, not official, only directly attributed by a once official source. The spoken word only taken from an audio book. Call it biased if you will and in retrospect it may well be an over simplification but none the less.......

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The Brady amendment may be voted down that's true (although it may not of course). In general terms though an amendment in parliament to another motion is not usually designed to spell out a full solution or end point but rather authorise the government to proceed in a particular way, as a particular initiative progresses, or require the government to take a specific action at a particular point in time, as we work towards a solution to whatever is being debated, unless of course the motion is a Bill and approval will deliver an Act of parliament.

In this case, the wording of the amendment has been carefully chosen so that if it is passed it will be clear about:

1. What the UK Parliament believes is wrong with the WA - the backstop as currently constituted
2. That if this is changed to a form that incorporates one of a number of characteristics the WA would gain UK parliamentary support

Until various proposals for amending the backstop are discussed with Brussels and a political decision is made in Brussels about whether and how they may wish to accede to any particular change, we cant know what that final agreement on the backstop will be. This amendment therefore does tell the EU what the UK really wants while allowing flexibility for the negotiation around that point to come to agreement that can be acceptable to all.

Unfortunately,the Brady amendment does not tell the EU what the UK actually wants,only what it doesn't want.Since it was the UK's decision to trigger Article 50 unilaterally,it rather behoves MP's in the UK to make a political decision on what basis they want to leave the EU ,rather than leave the decision making process to the EU.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I've not read any of these links yet but I think this is what you are requesting

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ied-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures


https://www.thepeoplesnewsonline.co...ed-to-admit-more-than-111000-claimant-deaths/

Err, I think he was referring to my post about the suicides in Greece that have been attributed to austerity.

 

[rigsby]

Just type in 'suicides as a result of government austerity' and you will get a wide range of sites including BBC who I assume you consider impartial. Guardian and Independent presumably considered hotbeds of rabid left wing ideology.

You never know if we hadn't spent £billions on committing genocide in the middle east under Blair and being conned by Brown into believing we had to give the banks £70 billion we might just have less austerity right now...…..Wouldnt you agree?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You never know if we hadn't spent £billions on committing genocide in the middle east under Blair and being conned by Brown into believing we had to give the banks £70 billion we might just have less austerity right now...…..Wouldnt you agree?

I imagine Tories certainly think so.Why do you?