Brexit negotiations thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

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1. Questions about what JC would like to see in any deal he might like to negotiate?

Questions and discussions about the EU and their intransigence in the whole matter.

Why you think the EU would in any way shape or form make any kind of better deal with anyone when it's in their collective interests for the UK to stay in the EU and Brexit to fail and fail spectacularly.

2. We have no idea what has been going on behind the closed doors of the civil service in preparation for a no deal Brexit apart from what we've been privileged to be told (sarcasm) but if you think they've been doing nothing then sorry, you are seriously deluded.

3. The EU are done with any negotiating with anyone and even if a new round of negotiating is forthcoming and regardless of who's at the helm it will be piecemeal only. They, the EU CANNOT afford for the UK to leave with any deal. That's not just how it is now, it's hows it's been from the second the vote was announced back in 2016.

4. Well, it's something I've spent hours and hours researching and it's just one of the things I based my leave vote on but if you don't want to believe me then hey ho, no biggie.

2. We are having a discussion and you keep asking for my input so when I use actual information that can be used to back up a certain position please don't state I am deluded as that obviously is not the case.

4. I didn't say I didn't believe you, I offered no opinion.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

There's one thing I'd like to know.If I, as a remainer, can accept that my preferred option is extremely unlikely to happen,why can't all the Brexiteer headbangers accept that leaving the EU on WTO terms is also extremely unlikely to happen too? (though granted it is the legal default option atm).

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

If I refrain for a minute from supporting the idea of a people's vote (which I back with some reservation) and consider if there is a chance of it getting majority backing in the HoC. If, as expected, Labour's motion this evening is defeated, it could be that the Labour parliamentary party (with a few exceptions) would swing behind the idea of a second vote. With the obvious backing of the Scots Nats, Lib Dems and others, plus a number of Tories, could it achieve a majority in the House? Not debating the advantages or disadvantages of this course of action, just wondering if people think it could be a runner?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

If I refrain for a minute from supporting the idea of a people's vote (which I back with some reservation) and consider if there is a chance of it getting majority backing in the HoC. If, as expected, Labour's motion this evening is defeated, it could be that the Labour parliamentary party (with a few exceptions) would swing behind the idea of a second vote. With the obvious backing of the Scots Nats, Lib Dems and others, plus a number of Tories, could it achieve a majority in the House? Not debating the advantages or disadvantages of this course of action, just wondering if people think it could be a runner?

Very unlikely, I thought JC was against it? And after that, if it was to happen the Scots would want (as part of the deal) a further vote. They might not be too smart but I suspect that supporting a "people's vote" would be recognised by many as a very slippery slope.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Very unlikely, I thought JC was against it? And after that, if it was to happen the Scots would want (as part of the deal) a further vote. They might not be too smart but I suspect that supporting a "people's vote" would be recognised by many as a very slippery slope.

JC isn't against it, it's an option Labour have kept on the table. May has repeatedly rejected it.
Tories are largely against it so I'd say it won't happen unless / until Tories are backed into a corner and it's that or a GE. Even then they may rather a GE.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Very unlikely, I thought JC was against it? And after that, if it was to happen the Scots would want (as part of the deal) a further vote. They might not be too smart but I suspect that supporting a "people's vote" would be recognised by many as a very slippery slope.

As we all know, if Labour don't get their prefered option of a General Election, we've been told everything is on the table including a second vote. There would apparently be strong support from the membership for this action.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

As we all know, if Labour don't get their prefered option of a General Election, we've been told everything is on the table including a second vote. There would apparently be strong support from the membership for this action.

Not to mention a petition already signed by 100 Labour MP's in favour.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Not to mention a petition already signed by 100 Labour MP's in favour.

By 71 MPs.
Straight away the reds and the Scots demand preset points before talking. Play ground self advancement

 

[blues exile]

By 71 MPs.
Straight away the reds and the Scots demand preset points before talking. Play ground self advancement

It is May's red lines that are preventing meaningful talks. Who are the reds by the way? Have you found them under your bed?

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Survived the vote

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Cooking got in the way of much of what was going on tonight. From what I heard, Watson's speech was very good whilst Gove was ugly..........the Tories have found a new untrained polecat and it sounded a good pitch for the leadership. Doesn't bode well for the quality of debate in the next GE. Did I hear right, that the Labour Party are considering further votes of no confidence?

 

[GBJ]

Nicked from FB

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

Spare a thought for TM's husband. Reckon with all the hours she's been away from home in recent months, his 'Buster Brown's' must be dragging along the ground??.

 

[rigsby]

There's one thing I'd like to know.If I, as a remainer, can accept that my preferred option is extremely unlikely to happen,why can't all the Brexiteer headbangers accept that leaving the EU on WTO terms is also extremely unlikely to happen too? (though granted it is the legal default option atm).

You don't get a vote because you live in Spain. You owe the rest of us one trillion euros. If I lived in Spain I would want Britain to remain, so they could pay my debts.

As I live in Britain I voted for all the people who have already had their retirement age raised to 67. When you don't pay your debts it will be raised again. I'm ok jack, I don't need to worry about pensions but of course as real socialist I care about the neglected real working class.

Most of us knew what was coming and it certainly wont end on March the 29th. Whilst you lot squabble over Corbyn or May. Perhaps you should remember more people voted leave than vote for Labour and Tory added together...…..So don't forget it when people start to put on their Yellow vests and when they do the blame will be firmly at the door of those that cant accept the result and want to deny the people their democratic right.

 

[Holy Joe]

And neither will another referendum.

1. How would you implement it?
2. What questions would you put on the ballot paper?
3. How would you ensure that politicians won't lie to the public again.
4. Would you want a 2/3 majority for it to be binding?
5. If it again came back leave, how would you square that with the remainers?
6. How would you placate the millions of angry people that voted leave in the first democratic vote?
7. What's to stop a third referendum if remain wins by 52% to 48%? (see my previous post about what a democratic vote actually is)

1. The same way as any of the previous referendums were implemented
2. I would suggest 2 questions (A) Remain or Leave and (B) if leave wins what leave - 'the deal' or no deal
3. Could make it a binding referendum
4. No
5. No need - leave wins - it's leave
6. They need to vote again
7. Nothing, if political parties wanted to bring it to the table again they could - but I'd imagine this experience would put them off for a little while.


i don't see any particular difficulties with the approach. What could be more democratic then a referendum

 

[mattitouk]

TM and Gove's speeches killed the opposition tonight.

The fact that JC didn't show up for an all party discussion, speaks massive volumes in my eyes... i should say he was like a "a rabbit in the headlights.??

Jeremy is as clueless as all the other heads of political parties. Including the PM.... We need a new leader of the Labour party and pretty damn quick!!

Doesn't say much, for any of them, but at least the lower political parties put in an appearance at 10 Downing Street tonight....JC just run for cover and hoped his advisors would have his back & cover for him.

Let's face it.... JC is a headless chicken!... the sooner he is gone the better. Get someone in that excite the party and their followers.

This is coming from being an independent SZ poster, that has never voted for the Tories in my life. And no intention of doing so...But fair play to the Tories, they walked it tonight, and rightfully so.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

TM and Gove's speeches killed the opposition tonight.

The fact that JC didn't show up for an all party discussion, speaks massive volumes in my eyes... i should say he was like a "a rabbit in the headlights.??

Jeremy is as clueless as all the other heads of political parties. Including the PM.... We need a new leader of the Labour party and pretty damn quick!!

Doesn't say much, for any of them, but at least the lower political parties put in an appearance at 10 Downing Street tonight....JC just run for cover and hoped his advisors would have his back & cover for him.

Let's face it.... JC is a headless chicken!... the sooner he is gone the better. Get someone in that excite the party and their followers.

This is coming from being an independent SZ poster, that has never voted for the Tories in my life. And no intention of doing so...But fair play to the Tories, they walked it tonight, and rightfully so.

What was it that either said that makes you think they 'killed the opposition'?

Labour won't be getting a new leader as the leader is voted by the members and an overwhelming majority back him. He also gained 40% of the vote in a GE 18 months ago and another GE very soon is very likely so it would be madness to change now.

When you say the Tories walked it tonight - they won by the exact amount of votes that the DUP sold to them.

 

[blues exile]

What was it that either said that makes you think they 'killed the opposition'?

Labour won't be getting a new leader as the leader is voted by the members and an overwhelming majority back him. He also gained 40% of the vote in a GE 18 months ago and another GE very soon is very likely so it would be madness to change now.

When you say the Tories walked it tonight - they won by the exact amount of votes that the DUP sold to them.

How revealing that Dodds took the opportunity to thank May for the bungs that bought his party in his speech after the vote. Clearly we have the best democracy money can buy.

 

[blues exile]

TM and Gove's speeches killed the opposition tonight.

The fact that JC didn't show up for an all party discussion, speaks massive volumes in my eyes... i should say he was like a "a rabbit in the headlights.??

Jeremy is as clueless as all the other heads of political parties. Including the PM.... We need a new leader of the Labour party and pretty damn quick!!

Doesn't say much, for any of them, but at least the lower political parties put in an appearance at 10 Downing Street tonight....JC just run for cover and hoped his advisors would have his back & cover for him.

Let's face it.... JC is a headless chicken!... the sooner he is gone the better. Get someone in that excite the party and their followers.

This is coming from being an independent SZ poster, that has never voted for the Tories in my life. And no intention of doing so...But fair play to the Tories, they walked it tonight, and rightfully so.

What a contrast between Tom Watson's devastating dissection of the disastrous premiership of May and the government's record and the hysterical, eye bulging theatrics of Gove, who managed to pack more lies and slurs into his ten minute diatribe than a Daily Mail editorial. A naked leadership bid if ever there was one, and if the public sees much more of this gibbering idiot, the next GE will be a landslide for Labour.

 

[GBJ]

What a contrast between Tom Watson's devastating dissection of the disastrous premiership of May and the government's record and the hysterical, eye bulging theatrics of Gove, who managed to pack more lies and slurs into his ten minute diatribe than a Daily Mail editorial. A naked leadership bid if ever there was one, and if the public sees much more of this gibbering idiot, the next GE will be a landslide for Labour.

Errr yeah. I’m sure Corbyn refusing to meet with May will only increase his support with the general public.

And to think, Labourites have been bemoaning the fact that May hadn’t invited any of the other leaders into discussions. Yet when she does, Corbyn declines it.

A man who had previously met with the IRA & Hezbollah, but refuses to meet the PM to discuss Brexit.

You couldn’t make it up.