Brexit negotiations thread

[Bielzibubz]

They have a £14m contract with a ferry company who have no ferries, for a route not fit for ferries, with a company worth £660 who lied to potential investors and who have previously liquidated companies with massive unpaid debts, the Tory Councillors in Ramsgate say they have not been consulted, Ostend authorities have not signed off agreements.
Chris Grayling insists that this all meets with his checks and balances.

So no, I'm pretty sure I'm not deluded.

One, I repeat ONE, small piece of dodgy planning in an absolute ocean of complex planning issues that would have had to have gone through in preparing for a no deal Brexit.

I get your upset ***. I get that you hate TM and want her gone. And I get that you desperately want JC in her place, but please, please don't let rational, subjective and balanced thought go out the window because of it.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

One, I repeat ONE, small piece of dodgy planning in an absolute ocean of complex planning issues that would have had to have gone through in preparing for a no deal Brexit.

I get your upset ***. I get that you hate TM and want her gone. And I get that you desperately want JC in her place, but please, please don't let rational, subjective and balanced thought go out the window because of it.

What have I got to be upset about?
What have I written that is factually incorrect or not rational?

This £14m 'ferry' deal is an example that is being used to highlight the low standards that the government seem to feel they need to hit in these arrangements (probably because they are unlikely to ever be usd, but when discussing if we are ready for no deal that's not reassuring).

There has been widespread accusations from numerous industries that no deal planning is not in place. This example is more stark.

If Chris Grayling came out and said mistakes have been made on this contract and it's not indicative then we could look at it in a different light. He hasn't, the government are happy with the way this deal was investigated and structured. That has to ring alarm bells.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

So we are told yes.

Isn't it the truth, apart from any policy issues, that Corbyn is a 'marmite' leader? Those who like him, adore him, those who dislike him, hate him ( generalising a bit ). This is not good. One can delve into the reasons how this attitude to the Labour leader came about but that won't detract from the facts as they are. It is a reason why Corbyn (even allowing for the unfair UK electoral system) will find it difficult to get a working majority..........apart from in exceptional circumstances.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And yet, despite all that (which I agree with btw) Corbyn still isn’t favourite to win a GE, and is still largely despised by vast swathes of the general public. lols

That's only because the MSM are not willing to countenance a Labour government under Corbyn.The 2017 general election demonstrated that the people are.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Isn't it the truth, apart from any policy issues, that Corbyn is a 'marmite' leader? Those who like him, adore him, those who dislike him, hate him ( generalising a bit ). This is not good. One can delve into the reasons how this attitude to the Labour leader came about but that won't detract from the facts as they are. It is a reason why Corbyn (even allowing for the unfair UK electoral system) will find it difficult to get a working majority..........apart from in exceptional circumstances.

It is what it is. Miliband was more of a middle ground leader and the increase from his vote to Corbyn's was the biggest since 1945. If people want a Centrist they can vote LibDem, but only 8% did that last time.
Half a million +members decide the leader and they have done twice by a large majority. The leader is staying and he got 40% of the vote against a confident Conservative Party.

Most of the people who seem worried about Labour losing have no intention of voting Labour anyway. Its a curious situation.

 

[markw]

That's only because the MSM are not willing to countenance a Labour government under Corbyn.The 2017 general election demonstrated that the people are.

I must have missed the Labour majority bit in that election...

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

It is what it is. Miliband was more of a middle ground leader and the increase from his vote to Corbyn's was the biggest since 1945. If people want a Centrist they can vote LibDem, but only 8% did that last time.
Half a million +members decide the leader and they have done twice by a large majority. The leader is staying and he got 40% of the vote against a confident Conservative Party.

Most of the people who seem worried about Labour losing have no intention of voting Labour anyway. Its a curious situation.

Liked Miliband, thought he was treated badly................but that's another story (when I spoke earlier of antisemitism not just being a problem in the Labour party). Didn't I read recently that his brother would be the voters' prefered option to replace Corbyn? Maybe he's the best leader the Labour party never had? I do believe if they chose the wrong brother......interesting to speculate what would have happened if they had chosen David instead. Maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we find ourselves today?

 

[GBJ]

A customs union for a start.

So accepting the continuous freedom of movement?

I’m sure that will be well received.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Liked Miliband, thought he was treated badly................but that's another story (when I spoke earlier of antisemitism not just being a problem in the Labour party). Didn't I read recently that his brother would be the voters' prefered option to replace Corbyn? Maybe he's the best leader the Labour party never had? I do believe if they chose the wrong brother......interesting to speculate what would have happened if they had chosen David instead. Maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we find ourselves today?

I liked Ed too.
David is like John Lennon - went away so people look back with rose tinted glasses.
I wouldn't want a leader who disappears when they don't get their own way. If he was in politics now he would be slated for having a Marxist Dad and for being paid crazy amounts of money for 'charity' work.

 

[GBJ]

That's only because the MSM are not willing to countenance a Labour government under Corbyn.The 2017 general election demonstrated that the people are.

I was under the illusion that Corbyn lost the GE last year?

Only in a Corbyn supporters mind, can a loss be classed as a win

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I was under the illusion that Corbyn lost the GE last year?

Only in a Corbyn supporters mind, can a loss be classed as a win

No one is claiming a win. The context as we all know was that Tories were polling 20 points ahead so broke the fixed Parliament act to cash in. Labour closed that to 2 points.

At the time everyone was totally gobsmacked at the level of recovery and that 40% of voters would embrace a socialist agenda. Now many people forget all the background and frame it as 'you lost' and then all of the background has to be written up again.

We know we lost. But we also took away the majority that May inherited from Cameron. 'You lost' is a part of a bigger picture.

 

[blues exile]

So accepting the continuous freedom of movement?

I’m sure that will be well received.

Indefinite article. ' A' customs union. Although personally I have no problem with free movement, do you?

 

[Bielzibubz]

What have I got to be upset about?
What have I written that is factually incorrect or not rational?

This £14m 'ferry' deal is an example that is being used to highlight the low standards that the government seem to feel they need to hit in these arrangements (probably because they are unlikely to ever be usd, but when discussing if we are ready for no deal that's not reassuring).

There has been widespread accusations from numerous industries that no deal planning is not in place. This example is more stark.

If Chris Grayling came out and said mistakes have been made on this contract and it's not indicative then we could look at it in a different light. He hasn't, the government are happy with the way this deal was investigated and structured. That has to ring alarm bells.

1. Upset because May is still in No10 and Corbyn isn't. All you've crowed on about for days and days now is May this, May that, May the other and not once put forward a sensible answer to many of the questions. The repetitiveness of your post structure is painting a picture.

2. The ferry deal, for want of a better name, doesn't in any way represent the much bigger picture of either what is or isn't going on behind the scenes with the civil service and their prep for a no deal Brexit.

3. If you take what the EU have said as gospel they will NOT go back to the negotiating table or make any new concessions over and above those that have already been conceded to TM.

4. Given it's history and the known facts about how corrupt and undemocratic it is to think that the EU, or to be more precise, Merkel, Macron, the German and French banks, the ECB and the Euro Group will do anything that jeopardises the Euro currency and their known and stated goal of total European financial and judicial integration then you are indeed being totally irrational, if not somewhat naive.

 

[GBJ]

No one is claiming a win. The context as we all know was that Tories were polling 20 points ahead so broke the fixed Parliament act to cash in. Labour closed that to 2 points.

At the time everyone was totally gobsmacked at the level of recovery and that 40% of voters would embrace a socialist agenda. Now many people forget all the background and frame it as 'you lost' and then all of the background has to be written up again.

We know we lost. But we also took away the majority that May inherited from Cameron. 'You lost' is a part of a bigger picture.

I read that as... Corbyn & his team performed a herculean recovery to come from behind & only lose by a little bit, instead of a lot.

What does it all add up to? It’s a great personal achievement, I get that, but does it put him closer to Number 10?

Indefinite article. ' A' customs union. Although personally I have no problem with free movement, do you?

You may not have a problem with free movement, but our infrastructure might disagree.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with free movement, as long as the basic expectations of Article 28 of the EU’s Citizens Directive are met. I.e. those coming to the country, need to work, contribute to the system & intergrate. Would you have a problem with that?

 

[blues exile]

I read that as... Corbyn & his team performed a herculean recovery to come from behind & only lose by a little bit, instead of a lot.

What does it all add up to? It’s a great personal achievement, I get that, but does it put him closer to Number 10?



You may not have a problem with free movement, but our infrastructure might disagree.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with free movement, as long as the basic expectations of Article 28 of the EU’s Citizens Directive are met. I.e. those coming to the country, need to work, contribute to the system & intergrate. Would you have a problem with that?

Our infrasructure has been deliberately and systematically starved of the funds it needs as a political choice by the Tories, while big business gets away with tax evasion on a mammoth scale and the pay gap between the boardroom and the work force has become obscene. Straight out of the Tory playbook, the old favourite that our problems are caused by those who have less than you, not by the greed of those that have more.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Isn't it the truth, apart from any policy issues, that Corbyn is a 'marmite' leader? Those who like him, adore him, those who dislike him, hate him ( generalising a bit ). This is not good. One can delve into the reasons how this attitude to the Labour leader came about but that won't detract from the facts as they are. It is a reason why Corbyn (even allowing for the unfair UK electoral system) will find it difficult to get a working majority..........apart from in exceptional circumstances.

The present situation would constitute "exceptional circumstances" for most people. .Tonight's no confidence vote will doubtless be followed by others in the weeks/months ahead.

I must have missed the Labour majority bit in that election...

Ha! Many commentators (including Tim Shipman Political editot of the ST) have suggested it might have happened if May's snap election had gone on for a week or so longer (or if electioneering hadn't been discontinued because of terrorist incidents.As it was Labour ended up only 2 % points behind the Tories,compared to being 20 % points behind at the beginning of the campaign.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

1. Upset because May is still in No10 and Corbyn isn't. All you've crowed on about for days and days now is May this, May that, May the other and not once put forward a sensible answer to many of the questions. The repetitiveness of your post structure is painting a picture.

2. The ferry deal, for want of a better name, doesn't in any way represent the much bigger picture of either what is or isn't going on behind the scenes with the civil service and their prep for a no deal Brexit.

3. If you take what the EU have said as gospel they will NOT go back to the negotiating table or make any new concessions over and above those that have already been conceded to TM.

4. Given it's history and the known facts about how corrupt and undemocratic it is to think that the EU, or to be more precise, Merkel, Macron, the German and French banks, the ECB and the Euro Group will do anything that jeopardises the Euro currency and their known and stated goal of total European financial and judicial integration then you are indeed being totally irrational, if not somewhat naive.

1. May this and May that - she has made everything about her, that's why we are discussing her. What questions do you think have been overlooked?

2. What no deal prep has been done that we should be happy about? Be good to share some good news if you have some.

3. I believe the EU are done with negotiating with May because she has had 2.5 years. If there was a change in structure of UK politics I think they would be willing to listen.

4. Don't know, not my area of expertise so I tend to leave that stuff to others.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Liked Miliband, thought he was treated badly................but that's another story (when I spoke earlier of antisemitism not just being a problem in the Labour party). Didn't I read recently that his brother would be the voters' prefered option to replace Corbyn? Maybe he's the best leader the Labour party never had? I do believe if they chose the wrong brother......interesting to speculate what would have happened if they had chosen David instead. Maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we find ourselves today?

I do hope you're not implying that the Milibands failed in politics because of anti-semitism in the Labour party?

In any case,I much preferred their father,Ralph Miliband,who I was lucky enough to hear speak in the early 70's).

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I was under the illusion that Corbyn lost the GE last year?

Only in a Corbyn supporters mind, can a loss be classed as a win

See post 4,656 above.

 

[Bielzibubz]

1. May this and May that - she has made everything about her, that's why we are discussing her. What questions do you think have been overlooked?

2. What no deal prep has been done that we should be happy about? Be good to share some good news if you have some.

3. I believe the EU are done with negotiating with May because she has had 2.5 years. If there was a change in structure of UK politics I think they would be willing to listen.

4. Don't know, not my area of expertise so I tend to leave that stuff to others.

-----------------------------------

1. Questions about what JC would like to see in any deal he might like to negotiate?

Questions and discussions about the EU and their intransigence in the whole matter.

Why you think the EU would in any way shape or form make any kind of better deal with anyone when it's in their collective interests for the UK to stay in the EU and Brexit to fail and fail spectacularly.

2. We have no idea what has been going on behind the closed doors of the civil service in preparation for a no deal Brexit apart from what we've been privileged to be told (sarcasm) but if you think they've been doing nothing then sorry, you are seriously deluded.

3. The EU are done with any negotiating with anyone and even if a new round of negotiating is forthcoming and regardless of who's at the helm it will be piecemeal only. They, the EU CANNOT afford for the UK to leave with any deal. That's not just how it is now, it's hows it's been from the second the vote was announced back in 2016.

4. Well, it's something I've spent hours and hours researching and it's just one of the things I based my leave vote on but if you don't want to believe me then hey ho, no biggie.