Brexit negotiations thread

[dcblue]

Try unemployment in the youth at 35%,and 40% of all young people have never had a job,no future there then.

Good answer.
What I don't understand is why people still want to remain in the political union which helped create these conditions.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I should think those living in Channel ports find it somewhat of a crisis.

"More than 220 people have attempted the crossing in small boats since November ." Whereas, as you'll no doubt remember, just 3 years ago over 1 million people tried to cross the Med.to get into EU countries.That was a crisis.

 

[OldBlueLady]

"More than 220 people have attempted the crossing in small boats since November ." Whereas, as you'll no doubt remember, just 3 years ago over 1 million people tried to cross the Med.to get into EU countries.That was a crisis.

I would think it's also been called a crisis because of the volume of traffic that crosses and passes through the Channel.

 

[rigsby]

"More than 220 people have attempted the crossing in small boats since November ." Whereas, as you'll no doubt remember, just 3 years ago over 1 million people tried to cross the Med.to get into EU countries.That was a crisis.

Good job we have learnt (as if we needed to) from the disastrous mistakes by the EU.

 

[blues exile]

Only the Tories, and those even to the right of these despicable opportunists, could turn a humanitarian crisis into a vote catcher of the benighted, misled and bigoted Mail and Sun 'readers'.

 

[rigsby]

Only the Tories, and those even to the right of these despicable opportunists, could turn a humanitarian crisis into a vote catcher of the benighted, misled and bigoted Mail and Sun 'readers'.

Would could send them somewhere nice and safe.....Like the Baltic states not many Sun and Mail readers there...…more like Mein Kampf

 

[blues exile]

Would could send them somewhere nice and safe.....Like the Baltic states not many Sun and Mail readers there...…more like Mein Kampf

An utterly ludicrous response, no surprise there.

 

[rigsby]

An utterly ludicrous response, no surprise there.

According to the latest Zone poll. over 50% of zoners would still vote leave. Every time you want to insult them I will remind you that your country produced 150,000 men to join the SS. Immigrants don't go to places with ingrained and cultural racism.

They would rather risk the English channel at this time of year. So maybe you should have a long look in the mirror before you post continuous snide remarks......Including on football threads by the way. Otherwise you will end up sounding like one of those bitter ex-pats who is not really happy where they are and slag off Britain to make themselves feel better...….We wouldn't want that from a fellow Southend fan would we.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Two very good reads/listens.

Adults in the Room - My Battle With Europes Deep Establishment.

In Adults in the Room, Yanis Varoufakis exposes the shocking reality of how power is wielded behind the scenes at the EU - and argues that only radical reform can save it from collapse.

Yanis Varoufakis became globally famous when was elected finance minister of Greece with a specific mandate to say no to the EU: to reject the forced loans and crushing austerity forced upon his country by the Eurozone.

The negotiations that ensued became one of the most spectacular and controversial battles in economic history. But no one actually knows what went on because Eurogroup discussions are held in secret. In this no-holds-barred account, Varoufakis reveals all: an extraordinary tale of brinkmanship and backstabbing that will shake the economic establishment to its foundations.

The future of the EU now hangs in the balance. As Varoufakis argues, the only way it can survive is if the truth is known, ushering in a new era of radical transparency and accountability in Brussels. Adults in the Room is an urgent wake-up call to renew European democracy before it is too late.

and

And the Weak Suffer What They Must - Europe, Austerity and the Threat to Global Stability

In 2008, the universe of Western finance outgrew planet Earth. When Wall Street imploded, a death embrace between insolvent banks and bankrupt states consumed Europe. Half a dozen national economies imploded, and several more came close. But the storm is far from over....

From the aftermath of the Second World War to the present, Varoufakis recounts how the eurozone emerged not as a route to shared prosperity but as a pyramid scheme of debt with countries such as Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain at its bottom. Its woeful design ensured that collapse would be inevitable and catastrophic.

But since the hurricane landed, Europe's leaders have chosen a cocktail of more debt and harsh austerity rather than reform, ensuring that the weakest citizens of the weakest nations pay the price for the bankers' mistakes while doing nothing to prevent the next collapse. Instead, the principle of the greatest austerity for those suffering the greatest recessions has led to a resurgence of racist extremism. Once more Europe is a potent threat to global stability.

Drawing on the personal experience of his own negotiations with the eurozone's financiers and offering concrete policies and alternatives, Varoufakis shows how we concocted this mess and how we can get out of it. And the Weak Suffer What They Must? reminds us of our history in order to save European capitalism from itself.

Just give them a go. Some might actually learn something...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Two very good reads/listens.

Adults in the Room - My Battle With Europes Deep Establishment.

In Adults in the Room, Yanis Varoufakis exposes the shocking reality of how power is wielded behind the scenes at the EU - and argues that only radical reform can save it from collapse.

Yanis Varoufakis became globally famous when was elected finance minister of Greece with a specific mandate to say no to the EU: to reject the forced loans and crushing austerity forced upon his country by the Eurozone.

The negotiations that ensued became one of the most spectacular and controversial battles in economic history. But no one actually knows what went on because Eurogroup discussions are held in secret. In this no-holds-barred account, Varoufakis reveals all: an extraordinary tale of brinkmanship and backstabbing that will shake the economic establishment to its foundations.

The future of the EU now hangs in the balance. As Varoufakis argues, the only way it can survive is if the truth is known, ushering in a new era of radical transparency and accountability in Brussels. Adults in the Room is an urgent wake-up call to renew European democracy before it is too late.

and

And the Weak Suffer What They Must - Europe, Austerity and the Threat to Global Stability

In 2008, the universe of Western finance outgrew planet Earth. When Wall Street imploded, a death embrace between insolvent banks and bankrupt states consumed Europe. Half a dozen national economies imploded, and several more came close. But the storm is far from over....

From the aftermath of the Second World War to the present, Varoufakis recounts how the eurozone emerged not as a route to shared prosperity but as a pyramid scheme of debt with countries such as Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain at its bottom. Its woeful design ensured that collapse would be inevitable and catastrophic.

But since the hurricane landed, Europe's leaders have chosen a ****tail of more debt and harsh austerity rather than reform, ensuring that the weakest citizens of the weakest nations pay the price for the bankers' mistakes while doing nothing to prevent the next collapse. Instead, the principle of the greatest austerity for those suffering the greatest recessions has led to a resurgence of racist extremism. Once more Europe is a potent threat to global stability.

Drawing on the personal experience of his own negotiations with the eurozone's financiers and offering concrete policies and alternatives, Varoufakis shows how we concocted this mess and how we can get out of it. And the Weak Suffer What They Must? reminds us of our history in order to save European capitalism from itself.

Just give them a go. Some might actually learn something...

Much as I like Varoufakis as a TV performer (and I've read And the Weak Suffer What they Must?) I think his analysis of the EU is (understandbly) flawed.I'd recommend a look at :-the goals and values of the EU :-
https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-in-brief_en
and also Fintan O'Toole's Heroic Failure: Brexit and the Politics of Pain.

 

[rigsby]

Much as I like Varoufakis as a TV performer (and I've read And the Weak Suffer What they Must?) I think his analysis of the EU is (understandbly) flawed.I'd recommend a look at :-the goals and aims of the EU .-https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-in-brief_en

and also Fintan O'Toole's Heroic Failure: Brexit and the Politics of Pain.

We have first hand experience in the goals and aims of the EU......That's why the we are leaving.

 

[blues exile]

According to the latest Zone poll. over 50% of zoners would still vote leave. Every time you want to insult them I will remind you that your country produced 150,000 men to join the SS. Immigrants don't go to places with ingrained and cultural racism.

They would rather risk the English channel at this time of year. So maybe you should have a long look in the mirror before you post continuous snide remarks......Including on football threads by the way. Otherwise you will end up sounding like one of those bitter ex-pats who is not really happy where they are and slag off Britain to make themselves feel better...….We wouldn't want that from a fellow Southend fan would we.

I hardly think a leave or remain poll on a small football forum can be extrapolated as evidence that there is a majority of the UK population who still support leave. Most scientifically weighted samples show the opposite as I am sure you are aware and the more people realise the catastrophic consequences of Brexit, the greater will be the number who wish to remain.
Your posts usually display a scattergun approach, so going off at a tangent once again your throwaway remarks about 150,000 Latvian volunteers for the SS are of course quite spurious as you well know. Many countries fell under the control of the Nazis during WW2 and the issue of the extent to which local populations collaborated is completely off topic but if you want to start a separate thread to discuss this I am quite happy to respond.
Finally, it is because like many expats, it is precisely because I do care about the future of the UK that despite being happily settled elsewhere I find it very depressing to witness the descent of a once tolerant and civilised country (at least during the post war consensus that Thatcher broke) into an inward looking, divided and intolerant society, suspicious of foreigners and deluding itself that a return to a glorious Imperial past is still possible.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

It's with some relief that we have visionaries like the good Dr Fox and Gavin Williamson, to position us as 'true global players' following Brexit. I particularly like the bit about '10 feet tall Britain.' Just wondering, where is he going to find the planes for our new military bases??? Maybe the ones which we can't use on HMS Queen Elizabeth?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...bbean-far-east-eu-global-player-a8703816.html

Thank you for the article Mr Williamson. I can now go and work a bit downstairs......... if I can stop laughing!

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Here in Britain 40% of muslim men and 70% of muslim women have never had a job. The figures are even higher in France.

Have you got a link to these figures?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Have you got a link to these figures?

Whilst Rigsby is searching for you, the link for figures in England, could he please provide me with evidence for the even higher figures in France?

 

[Bielzibubz]

Much as I like Varoufakis as a TV performer (and I've read And the Weak Suffer What they Must?) I think his analysis of the EU is (understandbly) flawed.I'd recommend a look at :-the goals and values of the EU :-
https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-in-brief_en
and also Fintan O'Toole's Heroic Failure: Brexit and the Politics of Pain.

So, just to clarify. You'd rather believe the words written by a European think tank, bought and paid for by the EU, and an Irish drama critic and contributor to the Irish Times rather than an economist, academic and politician (national finance minister) who's had first hand experience and intimate knowledge of dealing with those in power at the EU?

Sums up your whole argument quite nicely

 

[Bielzibubz]

Have you got a link to these figures?

It's actually 21.3% overall but let's not quibble. And those figures change drastically depending on what part of the UK you want to quote.

Linky Thing

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It's actually 21.3% overall but let's not quibble. And those figures change drastically depending on what part of the UK you want to quote.

Linky Thing

So half of the lower of the figures Rigsby stated.
And who sets up a website purely for 'Muslim Statistics'? The obvious failing is that there are no comparative figures for any other religions.

2nd figure on there is how many Muslims have no qualifications. That amused me as my brother in law is Muslim and can't read or write in any language and his job as a chef pays as much as mine as an accountant.

Pressumably Rigsby's double figures came from another site.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It's actually 21.3% overall but let's not quibble. And those figures change drastically depending on what part of the UK you want to quote.

Linky Thing

The guy that wrote up these stats died 10 years ago....

 

[OldBlueLady]

I hardly think a leave or remain poll on a small football forum can be extrapolated as evidence that there is a majority of the UK population who still support leave. Most scientifically weighted samples show the opposite as I am sure you are aware and the more people realise the catastrophic consequences of Brexit, the greater will be the number who wish to remain.

Strangely hubby recently took part in a survey of 80,000+ respondents into "how they would vote now" - I can't remember who he said had run the survey and he only did it because you couldn't see the results without taking part, but 80% of those who had responded said they would now vote to leave. Many cited the absolute debacle surrounding not accepting the democratic will of the people in the original referendum as part of their reasons for voting as they had.