Brexit negotiations thread

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Thank you for that reply YBUTC. My question was directed at MK really as that was exactly what he seemed to be saying in the last post he made.

I'm ****ed at the complete hash TM has made of this. I wish she'd gone into the negotiations with the intent of getting the best deal for the UK but that's clearly not what she's done.

What I want now is just to get out as soon as possible and if that means a no deal exit then so be it because no matter what is put before the people now it will be the same lies and spin from both sides.

On the referendum paper it was a simple choice between in and out. That was it. It was down to each individual to do their own homework, to work out what, where and when. To decide who and what to believe. That's all that was asked and the people voted to leave. They didn't vote to leave with this or that certain deal in place. They voted to leave and we voted to trust our politicians to get us out the best way they can. The fact certain conditions haven't been met in that deal to please everyone is neither here nor there.

We voted to leave and we must leave. That's democracy for you. Like it or lump it that's the way it is.

I respect your views whilst, at the same time, profoundly disagreeing with them. You did your homework, although I suspect there was already a firm framework of ideological belief in place. I think that many, with a less ideological standpoint, would have found the task of grappling with such a complex issues as our relationship with the EU, rather daunting. It is they who would have been swayed by the arguments (now seen as deeply flawed) offered by both the leave and remain campaigns. For that reason your notion of the conditions of the deal as being unimportant doesn't hold water. Many believed what they were told about having our cake and eating it. As for many things concerning the referendum, the ballot paper was also flawed. If that had offered the choice between 1) Remain or 2) Leave the EU without a deal.........I doubt I'd be on here wasting my Sunday morning, arguing the toss with you. On reflection this would have given us a clear, unambiguous choice and decision.
Your views, of crashing out with no deal, don't hold anything but a small minority of support in parliament and I would suspect a minority in the electorate at large. As a good democrat, I'm surprised you wouldn't want to offer this, now clearly defined choice, back to the electorate for confirmation

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The day she called a GE and completely screwed it up was the day Brexit died IMO. I have never seen such a dire performance from a "leader" with a huge lead in the polls fudge it so well. By all accounts she offered to resign the day after the result. The tory party will rue that day they didn't take her up on her offer and get a leader in who actually believed in the task in hand.
Whatever we are likely to end up with certainly isn't what I thought I was voting for. I know talk is cheap but I'm serious when I say that it has made me think long and hard whether I will vote again. I can't be the only one who thinks this way.

SAM, you, along with the rest of the electorate, were sold a pup wiith the referendum. There was NEVER going to be a good Brexit deal............the animal doesn't exist, no matter which leader the Tory Party had. Do you seriously believe that if May had not messed up in 2017 and achieved a clear majority, then things would have been different? The deep divisions in the Tory Party wouldn't have suddenly healed. Perhaps, if the numbers fell well for her, she could have found it slightly easier to push her deal, one that not many appear to like, through The Commons. As I pointed out above, one of the major faults in the referendum, was the ballot paper and the question it asked the British people to decide on. A choice beween remain or leave with no deal would have left no room for ambiguity. In reality they were virtually the only choices on offer.

 

[Gremlin]

Friends with terrorist organisations....meh
Rampant anti-semitism.....whatever
HoC misogyny......but, she is stupid!
General incompetence..... nasty Tories, Old Etonians, "the rich", etc..

Reaffirm longstanding anti-EU stance......I'm completely shocked and will never vote for you again!

Looks as though attempting to play both sides for political gain is catching up on someone. Nobody could possibly have seen this coming.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Friends with terrorist organisations....meh
Rampant anti-semitism.....whatever
HoC misogyny......but, she is stupid!
General incompetence..... nasty Tories, Old Etonians, "the rich", etc..

Reaffirm longstanding anti-EU stance......I'm completely shocked and will never vote for you again!

Looks as though attempting to play both sides for political gain is catching up on someone. Nobody could possibly have seen this coming.

Not just friends with anti Semitic terrorists but actually arming them despite the effect being the biggest humanitarian crisis in decades. You are right to highlight this and UK being implicated in the murders in Yemen is a stain on our nation. Yet people still vote Tory.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46693156

Even the Met. don't think a no-deal Brexit would be a good idea.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46693156

Even the Met. don't think a no-deal Brexit would be a good idea.

Theresa May has shown her hand much to the disgust of most of the Country and her own party. She's run down the clock and left us with no deal, which looks like it could be a costly disaster, or her half in half out bad deal that no one wants. She's trying to force us to accept her deal in this no win scenario she has created. Either way, it's shocking that it's come down to this after all that time.

 

[Swiss Tony]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46693156

Even the Met. don't think a no-deal Brexit would be a good idea.

Best they keep their minds fixed firmly on crime,thats what their paid for.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46697749

JC wants an early Brexit vote.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46693156

Even the Met. don't think a no-deal Brexit would be a good idea.

Was wondering how long the Christmas truce would last..........and who would break it!

 

[dcblue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46693156

Even the Met. don't think a no-deal Brexit would be a good idea.

You mean Cressida Dick the political leader of the Met. Crime seems to be rising in London while we are in the EU.

 

[MK Shrimper]

You mean Cressida Dick the political leader of the Met. Crime seems to be rising in London while we are in the EU.

Hmm, so the Tories cut 20000 police from the force and yet you equate this to being in the EU? There is no hope for some, so totally blinkered and leading this country to wreck and ruin.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Hmm, so the Tories cut 20000 police from the force and yet you equate this to being in the EU? There is no hope for some, so totally blinkered and leading this country to wreck and ruin.

Yep would love to hear the argument for the crime rates in London being down to us being in the EU!

My other half was the only detective on duty at Plaistow station yesterday. The problem is the Met is dangerously under funded and don't have the bodies, like you correctly point out.

 

[rigsby]

You mean Cressida Dick the political leader of the Met. Crime seems to be rising in London while we are in the EU.

The woman who was in charge of killing Jean Charles de Menezes. A case of appalling command and decision making.

Should have been criminal charges or at least stopped most careers. Unless of course your a political 'Yes' girl.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Yep would love to hear the argument for the crime rates in London being down to us being in the EU!

My other half was the only detective on duty at Plaistow station yesterday. The problem is the Met is dangerously under funded and don't have the bodies, like you correctly point out.

It'll be on a website hosted somewhere in Moscow.

 

[rigsby]

Yep would love to hear the argument for the crime rates in London being down to us being in the EU!

My other half was the only detective on duty at Plaistow station yesterday. The problem is the Met is dangerously under funded and don't have the bodies, like you correctly point out.

I guess having 27 officers to follow each muslim on the 'Watch' list 24/7 doesn't help.

That's over £2m per year just for Anjem Choudary…...Diversity always comes with a price.

 

[Ricky Otto]

I guess having 27 officers to follow each muslim on the 'Watch' list 24/7 doesn't help.

That's over £2m per year just for Anjem Choudary…...Diversity always comes with a price.

So Anjem Choudary wouldn't be here if it wasn't for us being in the EU? I think you'll find he is in this country as he was born here from Pakistani parents. That has nothing to do with the EU and more to do with our exploitative Empire.

 

[rigsby]

So Anjem Choudary wouldn't be here if it wasn't for us being in the EU? I think you'll find he is in this country as he was born here from Pakistani parents. That has nothing to do with the EU and more to do with our exploitative Empire.

Come on Ricky, your better than that.

 

[dcblue]

Hmm, so the Tories cut 20000 police from the force and yet you equate this to being in the EU? There is no hope for some, so totally blinkered and leading this country to wreck and ruin.

We are, and have been, in the EU since it became a political entity. In that time I would argue that many things, including crime have deteriorated. Not only in Britain but also in some of the other member countries, as seen by the rise of support for anti EU political parties.
By your response it appears that you believe the EU has nothing to do with what is causing these problems and it is all to do with national governments. You may be right but with all that is going on I doubt it.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Come on Ricky, your better than that.

So why did we go and colonise countries if it was not to profit from them, taking their resources? That equates to exploitation to me and that's before you even start on slavery etc.

 

[rigsby]

So why did we go and colonise countries if it was not to profit from them, taking their resources? That equates to exploitation to me and that's before you even start on slavery etc.

That has nothing to do with police funding and is poor excuse for the likes of Choudary.

Think of all those wonderful benefits you enjoy because of 'exploitation'...….Lloyds is a magnificent building.....How is the global market these days?