Brexit negotiations thread

[MK Shrimper]

A May/Corbyn TV debate then...........what on earth is the point of that?????

https://news.sky.com/story/may-vs-corbyn-tv-debate-on-brexit-confirmed-11566716

They are both leavers. It's just going to be trying to score political points off each other. A chance for each to claim they got, or would have got, a better deal. Irrelevant in the present circumstances.

Agreed, though May did vote Remain. A better debate would have been between Nicola Sturgeon/Caroline Lucas and May.

 

[Napster]

A May/Corbyn TV debate then...........what on earth is the point of that?????

https://news.sky.com/story/may-vs-corbyn-tv-debate-on-brexit-confirmed-11566716

They are both leavers. It's just going to be trying to score political points off each other. A chance for each to claim they got, or would have got, a better deal. Irrelevant in the present circumstances.

May's a remainer. Which is ironic really.

 

[Member]

A May/Corbyn TV debate then...........what on earth is the point of that?????

https://news.sky.com/story/may-vs-corbyn-tv-debate-on-brexit-confirmed-11566716

They are both leavers. It's just going to be trying to score political points off each other. A chance for each to claim they got, or would have got, a better deal. Irrelevant in the present circumstances.

May is trying to win this like a Parliament GE, but she clearly has memory loss because her last GE didn't go so well.

 

[Member]

Agreed, though May did vote Remain. A better debate would have been between Nicola Sturgeon/Caroline Lucas and May.

Corbyn voted Remain as well.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Corbyn voted Remain as well.

Did he? There you go, I was under the impression he was a leaver. Which makes his silence on a 2nd vote all the stranger. What wierd times we live in.

 

[Member]

Did he? There you go, I was under the impression he was a leaver. Which makes his silence on a 2nd vote all the stranger. What wierd times we live in.

I swear people (not accusing you specifically here mate) just make things up about Corbyn and ignore what he actually says.

https://twitter.com/x/status/745886722987294720

He's probably got more 'leave' tendencies than May did, at least prior to the referendum.

He's also said (at times) he'd vote remain again, although he has shifted a bit on that as he's looked to apply pressure on May (which is a fair criticism of him)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...dum-eu-negotiations-theresa-may-a7996996.html

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/could-jeremy-corbyn-be-about-to-back-a-second-referendum/

 

[Member]

Did he? There you go, I was under the impression he was a leaver. Which makes his silence on a 2nd vote all the stranger. What wierd times we live in.

His silence at times has been frustrating I agree, but for him the timing has to be right to launch a campaign for a second vote. If he does it before the 11th I think he runs the risk of rallying support for May's deal... he's best of letting the focus be on that and if the vote doesn't go through (I don't think it will, due to missing the mark for both the remainers and hard leavers) then he can seize the moment to call for a second referendum on either May's deal (the only current deal negotiated) or remain. Happy for some of the sensible posters on here to provide a critique of my interpretation.

TBH, I've been quite detatched from Brexit for the last couple of months with a lot going on at home/work so only really starting to get back up to speed with things.

 

[MK Shrimper]

TBH, I've been quite detatched from Brexit for the last couple of months with a lot going on at home/work so only really starting to get back up to speed with things.

It's still **** and getting ****tier by the day.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

May's a remainer. Which is ironic really.

Perhaps, like a religious convert, she over compensates and becomes over zealous in her new belief?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

His silence at times has been frustrating I agree, but for him the timing has to be right to launch a campaign for a second vote. If he does it before the 11th I think he runs the risk of rallying support for May's deal... he's best of letting the focus be on that and if the vote doesn't go through (I don't think it will, due to missing the mark for both the remainers and hard leavers) then he can seize the moment to call for a second referendum on either May's deal (the only current deal negotiated) or remain. Happy for some of the sensible posters on here to provide a critique of my interpretation.

TBH, I've been quite detatched from Brexit for the last couple of months with a lot going on at home/work so only really starting to get back up to speed with things.

It's an interesting point of view. I don't think he's never hidden his first preference for a General Election but of course, it's not for him to call. If one doesn't materialise I think it likely he will call for a second referendum, especially if May remains opposed. Still can't quite see the point of a TV debate. It's not for the public to listen and make up their minds, it's all in the hands of MP's Maybe a debate would be more useful after the parliamentary vote?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That would be ok but as he doesn't give any other prediction these figures are used by the politicians and media to advance their goal of stopping brexit. They may mention it's a worst case but only as a side note. The headlines will be doom and gloom if brexit goes ahead on wto terms. I call that scare mongering.
BTW all this preparing for the worst, brexit, storms etc, is why there is such negativity in the country. Why not try, expect the best and get some positivity going to get some enthusiasm and maybe even togetherness back in the country.

I think it's unlikely that Brexit will be stopped. Just how it will be delivered is,of course,another matter.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

A May/Corbyn TV debate then...........what on earth is the point of that?????

https://news.sky.com/story/may-vs-corbyn-tv-debate-on-brexit-confirmed-11566716

They are both leavers. It's just going to be trying to score political points off each other. A chance for each to claim they got, or would have got, a better deal. Irrelevant in the present circumstances.

Both have said that they voted remain in 2016. Mrs May's deal clearly supports a soft version of Brexit, whereas even though Labour's 2017 manifesto supported Brexit, Jeremy Corbyn,IMO,is still the unreconstructed Bennite that he always was, ie a reluctant or crypto remainer. at best.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It did make me laugh when the EU said they would back the deal. Of course they will. It's almost handed them everything. Theresa May must be a terrible negotiator. Her goal seems to be more to get a deal the EU would accept, rather than one that's good for us. This is why hardly anyone here likes this deal. Macron even said that Britain will remain in the custom union and without fishing rights, even mentioning he will try and obtain access to British waters for his own country's fishermen, and saying that all his fishermen will be protected. Absolute disgrace.

You seem to ignore the fact that the EU has held (and continues to hold) most of the best cards in this particular negotiation.Unless, of course, you're advocating that we crash out of the EU on WTO terms.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

His silence at times has been frustrating I agree, but for him the timing has to be right to launch a campaign for a second vote. If he does it before the 11th I think he runs the risk of rallying support for May's deal... he's best of letting the focus be on that and if the vote doesn't go through (I don't think it will, due to missing the mark for both the remainers and hard leavers) then he can seize the moment to call for a second referendum on either May's deal (the only current deal negotiated) or remain. Happy for some of the sensible posters on here to provide a critique of my interpretation.

TBH, I've been quite detatched from Brexit for the last couple of months with a lot going on at home/work so only really starting to get back up to speed with things.

This is exactly the situation. Remainers and Leavers have been frustrated by Labour not pinning themselves to either cause but I expect now most people realise why. With the DUP Tories had a majority in Parliament and Labour policy could not change that, but by not giving May anti-Labour ammunition the heat has stayed on her and we are seeing the results of that right now.
It's a great strategy once you get the results, and a frustrating policy up to that point. The result will be remembered and the build up to it will be forgotten.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Both have said that they voted remain in 2016. Mrs May's deal clearly supports a soft version of Brexit, whereas even though Labour's 2017 manifesto supported Brexit, Jeremy Corbyn,IMO,is still the unreconstructed Bennite that he always was, ie a reluctant or crypto remainer. at best.

Yes, I accept that I could have written that a bit more thoughtfully. That is to say, they now both advocate leaving, it's the nuances of depature that seperate them. There is therefore a body of opinion (certainly a majority), whether you like it or not, that would favour two alternative options. Firstly, there are those who would prefer to crash out of the EU without any agreement, whilst there is probably a much larger group who may like to reconsider the option of not leaving at all. Where does that leave those two groups with regards to the cosy debate between Corbyn and May?................................the answer.............unrepresented.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

You seem to ignore the fact that the EU has held (and continues to hold) most of the best cards in this particular negotiation.Unless, of course, your advocating that we crash out of the EU on WTO terms.

I'm not advocating that. I know that if someone a lot more bullish was negotiating for us, we would have got a better deal, that would get through the vote in parliament. In question time last week, the house was asked to put their hands up if you thought the May deal was a good deal. Even the Tories didn't put their hands up and back their prime minister. It was a total embarrassment. If someone like Boris(Who I can't stand) was doing the deal he would have held his ground and met somewhere in the middle or slightly towards a good deal for us. My main point is that like many others, I can't believe she pushed on regardless with this deal.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I'm not advocating that. I know that if someone a lot more bullish was negotiating for us, we would have got a better deal, that would get through the vote in parliament. In question time last week, the house was asked to put their hands up if you thought the May deal was a good deal. Even the Tories didn't put their hands up and back their prime minister. It was a total embarrassment. If someone like Boris(Who I can't stand) was doing the deal he would have held his ground and met somewhere in the middle or slightly towards a good deal for us. My main point is that like many others, I can't believe she pushed on regardless with this deal.

She certainly could have got a better deal IF she hadn't drawn her red lines of saying no to a customs union and the single market. The question then arises, if she had accepted a customs union and the single market, would she have been faithful to the spirit of the Brexit people voted for? Given that she manacled herself with those conditions, it's difficult to see how she could have achieved a much better deal.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yes, I accept that I could have written that a bit more thoughtfully. That is to say, they now both advocate leaving, it's the nuances of depature that seperate them. There is therefore a body of opinion (certainly a majority), whether you like it or not, that would favour two alternative options. Firstly, there are those who would prefer to crash out of the EU without any agreement, whilst there is probably a much larger group who may like to reconsider the option of not leaving at all. Where does that leave those two groups with regards to the cosy debate between Corbyn and May?................................the answer.............unrepresented.

That is your opinion,it is not a fact. Certainly not, if you're implying that this "much larger group" is now a majority of the British people.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46394431

MP's get some good advice from the PM:

 

[dcblue]

That can of worms has been well and truly opened by Cameron and these arguments will, irrelevant if Brexit happens or not, or what shape it takes, continue for a generation or more. The country is divided as never before and talk of a "civil uprising" if Brexit doesn't happen sort of doesn't fit the tone of your post.

There has been no positivity about brexit in the media since the referendum. There was growing dissatisfaction about the EU, hence the referendum. Leave won and as I just said it was all negativity, doom and disaster from politicians and media. Maybe if they had supported brexit, more of the losing voters would have accepted the result and the country would not be so divided.