When will the takeover go through? Council / Citizen Housing agree new Heads of Terms 26 June

[Massimo Giovanni]

What is actually wrong with ronald martin ? Serious question ..because something is

Yes, quite!
I can't understand how a person into their latter years and with family, hobbies, life, some health/age worries would want more stress and aggro "just" to add more money and an already reasonable standard of living.
I have asked same about lots of other power/money/ego/greed/show persons.
Why don't they get on with living?
Rat must enjoy it? Same as some folks enjoy fetish stuff?

 

[annie1954]

What is actually wrong with ronald martin ? Serious question ..because something is

one of the main problems with him is his whole life revolves around money just like many people in his wealthy position no matter how much he has in the bank or under his mattress his life is all about making the next penny

 

[Sammy Shrimper]

It's hard from a distance to see what the complications are. There's been a deal in place since Xmas(?) subject to council agreeing to lease the additional properties at FF.

Are the complications around what happens if the council and Ron don't get agreement?

Probably and I bet Ron Martin /Jack are trying to renegotiate the terms of the new lease for Roots Hall?

 

[danbowen]

What is actually wrong with ronald martin ? Serious question ..because something is

His son seems like a bigger c*** than him somehow and I think he is more of a problem than Ron in this.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It's hard from a distance to see what the complications are. There's been a deal in place since Xmas(?) subject to council agreeing to lease the additional properties at FF.

Are the complications around what happens if the council and Ron don't get agreement?

The complications will be around decoupling the property deal from the takeover. If this wasn’t complicated this would surely have been done before!

From afar the question would seem to be does Ron have it in his gift to do what he needs to do to decouple the takeover from the property transaction? I’ve said previously that his lenders likely have security that prevents him from discharging the charge over SUFC/granting a lease to COSU at below market value

Eg this is a clause from the charge CBRE have over Roots Hall Ltd

Charge - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ROOTS HALL LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

 

[Holy Joe]

The complications will be around decoupling the property deal from the takeover. If this wasn’t complicated this would surely have been done before!

From afar the question would seem to be does Ron have it in his gift to do what he needs to do to decouple the takeover from the property transaction? I’ve said previously that his lenders likely have security that prevents him from discharging the charge over SUFC/granting a lease to COSU at below market value

Eg this is a clause from the charge CBRE have over Roots Hall Ltd

Charge - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ROOTS HALL LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

But the consortium were never buying RH until planning permission was in place - many many months from now - that hasn't changed, that was the situation at Xmas and remains now. We were told it was already agreed to have a 25yr lease on RH.


I agree, if it's simple, why wasn't it dones month ago - I suspect one answer maybe the level of risk parties are willing to accept - Cosu are taking increased risk, as maybe are CBRE.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

But the consortium were never buying RH until planning permission was in place - many many months from now - that hasn't changed, that was the situation at Xmas and remains now. We were told it was already agreed to have a 25yr lease on RH.


I agree, if it's simple, why wasn't it dones month ago - I suspect one answer maybe the level of risk parties are willing to accept - Cosu are taking increased risk, as maybe are CBRE.

Granting a 25 year peppercorn rent at Roots Hall drastically reduces the value of CBRE’s security.

It’s likely them wanting the agreement for lease in place before switching their security.

The Consortium may be willing to take increased risk but CBRE won’t - they will require additional security.

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

The good thing with the council being involved is that they are not under this silly confidentiality rule so if as we expect those couple of ****s are playing games they can make it public, giving them the bad press they so hate, and us an opportunity to stick it on them in whatever way the groups seem fit. (hopefully a proper protest outside their homes).

 

[Chairman Trigg]

What is actually wrong with ronald martin ? Serious question ..because something is

 

[ms brush]

Granting a 25 year peppercorn rent at Roots Hall drastically reduces the value of CBRE’s security.

It’s likely them wanting the agreement for lease in place before switching their security.

The Consortium may be willing to take increased risk but CBRE won’t - they will require additional security.

Surely, it is a bit out of CRBEs hands, because the council can impose community asset status on Roots Hall, which is within their rights (probably after a raft of red tape). That alone would dramatically reduce their security.

Of course the other scenaria would be if CBRE are not getting their security needs met.

I would have though that in the biiger picture CBRE would rather be dealing with COSU rather than the rats. There is no telling what is going on behind the scenes, so lets hope that somewhere along the line a few interesing conversations will result in a breakthrough.

 

[Holy Joe]

Granting a 25 year peppercorn rent at Roots Hall drastically reduces the value of CBRE’s security.

It’s likely them wanting the agreement for lease in place before switching their security.

The Consortium may be willing to take increased risk but CBRE won’t - they will require additional security.

Trying to think through the risk to CBRE if the deal falls apart - is that more or less risk than agreeing the consortium take over now? - no deal and they'll be left with land with (effectively) no planning permission and a dilapidated stadium, but they'd be free to dispose of whereas agree now and downside is a tenant with a 25yr lease but upside of likelihood of FF getting PP and paid off?

 

[overseas shrimper]

one of the main problems with him is his whole life revolves around money just like many people in his wealthy position no matter how much he has in the bank or under his mattress his life is all about making the next penny

That's fine in itself, if that's what floats his boat and motivates him. The problem is the crucial bit you left out... 'while shafting whoever he needs to in the process'.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Surely, it is a bit out of CRBEs hands, because the council can impose community asset status on Roots Hall, which is within their rights (probably after a raft of red tape). That alone would dramatically reduce their security.

Of course the other scenaria would be if CBRE are not getting their security needs met.

I would have though that in the biiger picture CBRE would rather be dealing with COSU rather than the rats. There is no telling what is going on behind the scenes, so lets hope that somewhere along the line a few interesing conversations will result in a breakthrough.

A community asset presumably still attracts market rent which while less than if housing would be more than they’d be receiving if a 25 year lease at a peppercorn rent.

Trying to think through the risk to CBRE if the deal falls apart - is that more or less risk than agreeing the consortium take over now? - no deal and they'll be left with land with (effectively) no planning permission and a dilapidated stadium, but they'd be free to dispose of whereas agree now and downside is a tenant with a 25yr lease but upside of likelihood of FF getting PP and paid off?

The absolute worst case scenario for them is they inherit an asset with a tenant in place for 25 years at a peppercorn rent isn’t it?

 

[tommy tucker]

A community asset presumably still attracts market rent which while less than if housing would be more than they’d be receiving if a 25 year lease at a peppercorn rent.


The absolute worst case scenario for them is they inherit an asset with a tenant in place for 25 years at a peppercorn rent isn’t it?

Would it not be in the concortiums intrest to give the CBREthe security they need Would it not be less than the 1 millon that the leauge wants Or am i wide of the mark hear

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Would it not be in the concortiums intrest to give the CBREthe security they need Would it not be less than the 1 millon that the leauge wants Or am i wide of the mark hear

I would have thought that CBRE have lent way more than £1m to Ron.

 

[Holy Joe]

A community asset presumably still attracts market rent which while less than if housing would be more than they’d be receiving if a 25 year lease at a peppercorn rent.


The absolute worst case scenario for them is they inherit an asset with a tenant in place for 25 years at a peppercorn rent isn’t it?

Their current preferred route of allowing new lease to SUFC when Ron and council sign the FF lease appears to be off the table - so they need to choose between the 2 options (plus any other options being negotiated).

I think you're probably right being left with the stranded asset probably worse- but by eliminating that risk you remove the upside of getting loan repaid by the borrower. I guess it depends on what the current LTV is - how much will they lose (if anything) if need to sell land as is. Which sort of comes back to my original post - is it negotiations around what happens if council and Ron don't sign lease on FF that's holding things up

 

[Sleaford Shrimper]

Would it not be in the concortiums intrest to give the CBREthe security they need Would it not be less than the 1 millon that the leauge wants Or am i wide of the mark hear

A big difference is that the 1 million that the National League want is returnable if the club meets its obligations to the National League, which it should manage to do under COSU's ownership.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Their current preferred route of allowing new lease to SUFC when Ron and council sign the FF lease appears to be off the table - so they need to choose between the 2 options (plus any other options being negotiated).

I think you're probably right being left with the stranded asset probably worse- but by eliminating that risk you remove the upside of getting loan repaid by the borrower. I guess it depends on what the current LTV is - how much will they lose (if anything) if need to sell land as is. Which sort of comes back to my original post - is it negotiations around what happens if council and Ron don't sign lease on FF that's holding things up

CBRE don’t need to do anything though.

Their default position will be to continue as is unless offered equivalent or better security.

I suspect the only way this is unlocked is if the consortium to take a leap of faith and assume all the risk which they offset to an extent by getting Ron to agree some sort of poison pill so if it doesn’t go through it takes Ron down with them.

Otherwise you need to await the Council’s due diligence process.

 

[Holy Joe]

CBRE don’t need to do anything though.

Their default position will be to continue as is unless offered equivalent or better security.

I suspect the only way this is unlocked is if the consortium to take a leap of faith and assume all the risk which they offset to an extent by getting Ron to agree some sort of poison pill so if it doesn’t go through it takes Ron down with them.

Otherwise you need to await the Council’s due diligence process.

Hhmmm - not sure if they do nothing then, then Cosu could walk, then if the pack of cards falls, they're left with RH, no effective planning permission, and a dilapidated stadium. If that then leaves them with an impaired asset and facing losses - who knows? So doing nothing might not be risk free for them.

Let's hope CBRE bods are working over the weekend!

Thanks for engaging, helps play through scenarios in my head

 

[Sammy Shrimper]

The risk to COSU is that Ron Martin will roll over the existing lease which has the ridiculous rent of £400k pa ! A new lease is a must.