We are being mugged off !

[Jam_Man]

I know I will get shot down here with it is only hypothetical but would you rather see us win some games 3-2 and draw some 3-3 but lose most 4-3 and play the attacking football you are demanding which is possible as you have already said earlier we do not possess world class defenders or would you rather see us win or draw most game 1-0 and 0-0 and lose some games 1-0 but carry on playing the football that we currently are?

For some reason Mrsblue seems to think to win games you just go gungho all out attack and you win. If only it were that simple.

Just look at games at Roots Hall the past few seasons, we have always struggled to break teams down who park the bus, we find it much easier when they come to have a go and attack as its easier for us to attack them. Its also a reason why we have good away records, because other teams dont defend as much at home.

I would love it if other teams came to Roots Hall gungho, our home form would improve instantly. Try going gungho against teams set up to defend and they will just pick us off on the counter attack.

All good teams are balanced and have good defences and good in attack. We need to be better in the latter, but not at the expense of the former.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Everton v Chelsea game on the telly box the other day, plenty of goals for both teams yet both teams are technically quite good defensively. I do tend to feel the difference is in the attacking flair, and I really feel that we are missing Timlin more than some people would care to admit.

 

[mrsblue]

For some reason Mrsblue seems to think to win games you just go gungho all out attack and you win. If only it were that simple.

Just look at games at Roots Hall the past few seasons, we have always struggled to break teams down who park the bus, we find it much easier when they come to have a go and attack as its easier for us to attack them. Its also a reason why we have good away records, because other teams dont defend as much at home.

I would love it if other teams came to Roots Hall gungho, our home form would improve instantly. Try going gungho against teams set up to defend and they will just pick us off on the counter attack.

All good teams are balanced and have good defences and good in attack. We need to be better in the latter, but not at the expense of the former.

Once again my words have either been twisted or misinterpreted as I have never said we should go gung ho!!

Phil's RH league record is ordinary as he has led the team in 29 games 12 wins 10 draws 7 defeats scoring 34 conceding 21 points 46.

This sequence includes 2 penalties and 1 OG,Phil's team have netted 31 times from open play whilst 19 of those games the fans have witnessed one goal or less,Being fair some of you maybe are content however I go to RH in the hope of seeing us score plenty and win in style.I cannot be certain on the number of games I have seen from the 29 but I do know the only 3 0 victory was the televised Oxford game other than that the most I have seen was us scoring 2 in the league whilst the majority have been one goal or zero.

The televised game we were brilliant mainly IMO we played 442 with Loza and Barnard,Yet in the flesh we play 1 up which is Corr with the rest of the team lumping high stuff to BC.

442 for me.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Once again my words have either been twisted or misinterpreted as I have never said we should go gung ho!!

Phil's RH league record is ordinary as he has led the team in 29 games 12 wins 10 draws 7 defeats scoring 34 conceding 21 points 46.

This sequence includes 2 penalties and 1 OG,Phil's team have netted 31 times from open play whilst 19 of those games the fans have witnessed one goal or less,Being fair some of you maybe are content however I go to RH in the hope of seeing us score plenty and win in style.I cannot be certain on the number of games I have seen from the 29 but I do know the only 3 0 victory was the televised Oxford game other than that the most I have seen was us scoring 2 in the league whilst the majority have been one goal or zero.

The televised game we were brilliant mainly IMO we played 442 with Loza and Barnard,Yet in the flesh we play 1 up which is Corr with the rest of the team lumping high stuff to BC.

442 for me.

You haven't understood Jams point at all.

 

[mrsblue]

You haven't understood Jams point at all.

Perhaps you missed my point entirely!,Which was at home we play 1 forward and on the rare occasion we played 2 forwards we won 3 0 and were very good.Away teams will defend in numbers but if they are marking 1 forward it is easier to defend against rather than 2 forwards with one of the two being quick.

Now what part of that don't you understand.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Perhaps you missed my point entirely!,Which was at home we play 1 forward and on the rare occasion we played 2 forwards we won 3 0 and were very good.Away teams will defend in numbers but if they are marking 1 forward it is easier to defend against rather than 2 forwards with one of the two being quick.

Now what part of that don't you understand.

Huh, now you are losing yourself. I didn't comment on your opinion. I just highlighted that you've not understood any of what Jam said. Nothing to do with football...more to do with analysing what he wrote which you seem to have ignored and then wrote an irrelevant reply to his post lol.

 

[mrsblue]

I know I will get shot down here with it is only hypothetical but would you rather see us win some games 3-2 and draw some 3-3 but lose most 4-3 and play the attacking football you are demanding which is possible as you have already said earlier we do not possess world class defenders or would you rather see us win or draw most game 1-0 and 0-0 and lose some games 1-0 but carry on playing the football that we currently are?

I f at the end of the season we had played 46 won 25 drew 10 lost 11 scoring 80 conceding 60 fantastic as we are going up,

or

played 46 won 25 drew 10 lost 11 scoring 80 conceding 35 even better as we are going up.

Currently we are staying in this division because we cannot put teams away through lack of goals.

 

[mrsblue]

Huh, now you are losing yourself. I didn't comment on your opinion. I just highlighted that you've not understood any of what Jam said. Nothing to do with football...more to do with analysing what he wrote which you seem to have ignored and then wrote an irrelevant reply to his post lol.

Oh well you are just too clever for me then !

 

[Beefy]

Perhaps you missed my point entirely!,Which was at home we play 1 forward and on the rare occasion we played 2 forwards we won 3 0 and were very good.

But you make it sound like that was the only time last season we played 4-4-2 at home. Or even the only time that we played with those two forwards.

Loza played several times for Southend and was crap in all but one of those games.

 

[chapperzUK]

Perhaps you missed my point entirely!,Which was at home we play 1 forward and on the rare occasion we played 2 forwards we won 3 0 and were very good.Away teams will defend in numbers but if they are marking 1 forward it is easier to defend against rather than 2 forwards with one of the two being quick.

Now what part of that don't you understand.

Didn't we play 4-4-2 during the entire 13 match winless streak and then same formation in every game this season?

Either Weston or Coulthirst have been up front who have pace, what you want, yet you still blame the system and then switch the blaming the strikers when it suits you.

 

[Lord Football]

Its Mr Blue I feel sorry for in all of this........

 

[mrsblue]

Didn't we play 4-4-2 during the entire 13 match winless streak and then same formation in every game this season?

Either Weston or Coulthirst have been up front who have pace, what you want, yet you still blame the system and then switch the blaming the strikers when it suits you.

433 is 451 .Weston and Coulthirt are played wide and are constantly tracking back to defend so whenever we retain the ball these 2 are normally so deep they are out of the game,Not even Messi will score from those positions.

 

[onceknownasrab]

This is a long thread going nowhere me thinks! Quite simply our team is set up wrongly. PB yaps on about 4-3-3. Nonsense. Two of the front three are responsible for getting back and allowing the overlap. They are mids and the formation is really 4-5-1. The problem is worse because the 1, which is normally Corr, comes back as well and often when we break forward there is nobody in a forward position and too often the mids are slow to get to the edge or into the box.

With the main 1 upfront being Corr, to use his best assets you need to find his head but without support his flick ons are a waste. If you want to play 4-5-1 you need a guy up front who is mobile and pacy so the ball can be played into the channels, picked up and held until others can arrive in support. Also if one of the mids played across the back four the middle two could get forward more in support without being caught out behind so much.

With our front 3 coming back so often we are basically playing 4-6 and wonder why a striker cant get on the score sheet.

The basics are there and it is just about a tweak but PB really needs to wake up.

 

[mrsblue]

This is a long thread going nowhere me thinks! Quite simply our team is set up wrongly. PB yaps on about 4-3-3. Nonsense. Two of the front three are responsible for getting back and allowing the overlap. They are mids and the formation is really 4-5-1. The problem is worse because the 1, which is normally Corr, comes back as well and often when we break forward there is nobody in a forward position and too often the mids are slow to get to the edge or into the box.

With the main 1 upfront being Corr, to use his best assets you need to find his head but without support his flick ons are a waste. If you want to play 4-5-1 you need a guy up front who is mobile and pacy so the ball can be played into the channels, picked up and held until others can arrive in support. Also if one of the mids played across the back four the middle two could get forward more in support without being caught out behind so much.

With our front 3 coming back so often we are basically playing 4-6 and wonder why a striker cant get on the score sheet.

The basics are there and it is just about a tweak but PB really needs to wake up.

Bingo!

You have got it and exactly how I see it !

 

[onceknownasrab]

:raspberry: Na Na NaNa Naaaaaaaa :raspberry: mrsblue agrees with me. Bet you's all are well jel!

 

[mrsblue]

:raspberry: Na Na NaNa Naaaaaaaa :raspberry: mrsblue agrees with me. Bet you's all are well jel!

Haha but just wait for the football experts on here to paint a different picture haha.:smile:

 

[chapperzUK]

Isn't 4-5-1/4-3-3 what Germany won the World Cup with?

You don't need a pacy forward, you need players willing to support and go beyond the striker to create the space. Movement in midfield is key too, just look at Coker's goal against Stevenage where Clifford and Leonard allowed Coker the space to run into who played a 1-2 with Corr, who came to the edge of the area to pull the defender away, and Coker then had the opportunity to score.

I've said this before, but I think a 4-5-1 with 2 wingers and someone sitting behind the striker who can link up with the striker and go beyond him to score goals will work well. Someone like Payne, Clifford or Coulthirst could do this IMO. With the 2 midfielders, having one more defensive and giving the other more attacking freedom to run with the ball and pick a pass is what I'd go for. Leonard is clearly someone we want to give freedom to as him running at defences causes them problems, but who is our defensive-minded midfielder who can sweep up any counter attack?

 

[onceknownasrab]

Isn't 4-5-1/4-3-3 what Germany won the World Cup with?

You don't need a pacy forward, you need players willing to support and go beyond the striker to create the space. Movement in midfield is key too, just look at Coker's goal against Stevenage where Clifford and Leonard allowed Coker the space to run into who played a 1-2 with Corr, who came to the edge of the area to pull the defender away, and Coker then had the opportunity to score.

I've said this before, but I think a 4-5-1 with 2 wingers and someone sitting behind the striker who can link up with the striker and go beyond him to score goals will work well. Someone like Payne, Clifford or Coulthirst could do this IMO. With the 2 midfielders, having one more defensive and giving the other more attacking freedom to run with the ball and pick a pass is what I'd go for. Leonard is clearly someone we want to give freedom to as him running at defences causes them problems, but who is our defensive-minded midfielder who can sweep up any counter attack?

Not disputing your points and no a pacy forward is not prerequisite but it does afford you an extra option for clearing, when under pressure, into space for pace to pick up, hold and deliver. Certainly at the very least good mobility is essential.

 

[mrsblue]

Isn't 4-5-1/4-3-3 what Germany won the World Cup with?

You don't need a pacy forward, you need players willing to support and go beyond the striker to create the space. Movement in midfield is key too, just look at Coker's goal against Stevenage where Clifford and Leonard allowed Coker the space to run into who played a 1-2 with Corr, who came to the edge of the area to pull the defender away, and Coker then had the opportunity to score.

I've said this before, but I think a 4-5-1 with 2 wingers and someone sitting behind the striker who can link up with the striker and go beyond him to score goals will work well. Someone like Payne, Clifford or Coulthirst could do this IMO. With the 2 midfielders, having one more defensive and giving the other more attacking freedom to run with the ball and pick a pass is what I'd go for. Leonard is clearly someone we want to give freedom to as him running at defences causes them problems, but who is our defensive-minded midfielder who can sweep up any counter attack?

Germany have world class players who can adapt to most systems whilst we have average guys who struggle under Phil's system with the forward often isolated outnumbered and has no chance.

I agree if we played 2 wingers who both have license to attack without dropping back to defend every time but I feel the entire team have been drilled to drop off and get behind the ball leaving nothing up front,Watch when we defend a corner there is literally no Southend player up the pitch which in essence means if we clear it the ball will come straight back.

 

[chapperzUK]

Not disputing your points and no a pacy forward is not prerequisite but it does afford you an extra option for clearing, when under pressure, into space for pace to pick up, hold and deliver. Certainly at the very least good mobility is essential.

Agreed, but if there is no support then the forward hasn't got much chance. I'm not saying Corr is perfect for the lone striker role as I believe he plays his best when he has support and scores most when someone else is doing the donkey work (i.e. Blair Sturrock in first season). Although playing someone behind him who has got the legs can play the free role chasing those sorts of balls knowing that the striker will been in a position to have a shot.