We are being mugged off !

[chapperzUK]

Germany have world class players who can adapt to most systems whilst we have average guys who struggle under Phil's system with the forward often isolated outnumbered and has no chance.

I agree if we played 2 wingers who both have license to attack without dropping back to defend every time but I feel the entire team have been drilled to drop off and get behind the ball leaving nothing up front,Watch when we defend a corner there is literally no Southend player up the pitch which in essence means if we clear it the ball will come straight back.

The wingers have to defend or our fullbacks will have 2 players to contend with, just like against Carlisle leading to their goal and numerous other chances. The wingers got back and defended, but quickly got up field when an attack was on. Just like how Mourinho won the CL with Inter, Eto'o was tracking back defending when required but was ready for when they attacked.

I have watched us defend corners and we always leave 1 up front, like pretty much every team does.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Agreed, but if there is no support then the forward hasn't got much chance. I'm not saying Corr is perfect for the lone striker role as I believe he plays his best when he has support and scores most when someone else is doing the donkey work (i.e. Blair Sturrock in first season). Although playing someone behind him who has got the legs can play the free role chasing those sorts of balls knowing that the striker will been in a position to have a shot.

Its where we see it differently. If Corr is lone up front the ball is played to him high for his head. If he is furthest forward the flick on and knock down is wasted and the ball into channels is pointless. If you were playing two up top,Corr stayed in the middle and A N OTHER ran the channels to deliver to Corr in the middle, then maybe. But PB puts his side out to have one main player up front.

 

[mrsblue]

Agreed, but if there is no support then the forward hasn't got much chance. I'm not saying Corr is perfect for the lone striker role as I believe he plays his best when he has support and scores most when someone else is doing the donkey work (i.e. Blair Sturrock in first season). Although playing someone behind him who has got the legs can play the free role chasing those sorts of balls knowing that the striker will been in a position to have a shot.

Our forward never has the luxury of support play,Corr will never be able to hold it then lay it off mainly because he is outnumbered and fighting to even win the ball and on the rare occasion he gets the better of the defenders he has nobody in support.

Phil sets up the team not to concede and he blames the refs or wayward shooting but his team have never scored many throughout his career as a manager,When he was at Preston they began well under him with his striker scoring for fun yet when that striker was injured Preston went into free fall and Phil was sacked!

My point with Phil he has only one game play and IMO cannot adapt.

 

[Pubey]

Dunno about anyone else but in the highlights I've seen Corr make assists and set up gilt-edged chances for Shaq. The problem is Shaq needs a goal to boost his confidence. I'm sure he'll come good and you know exactly what you're getting with Corr, his teammates need to get a bit closer.

 

[mrsblue]

Its where we see it differently. If Corr is lone up front the ball is played to him high for his head. If he is furthest forward the flick on and knock down is wasted and the ball into channels is pointless. If you were playing two up top,Corr stayed in the middle and A N OTHER ran the channels to deliver to Corr in the middle, then maybe. But PB puts his side out to have one main player up front.

Spooky I agree again:happy:

 

[Jam_Man]

Germany have world class players who can adapt to most systems whilst we have average guys who struggle under Phil's system with the forward often isolated outnumbered and has no chance.

I agree if we played 2 wingers who both have license to attack without dropping back to defend every time but I feel the entire team have been drilled to drop off and get behind the ball leaving nothing up front,Watch when we defend a corner there is literally no Southend player up the pitch which in essence means if we clear it the ball will come straight back.

Thats a tactic lots of people employ, including Tilson and Sturrock.

The thinking is that the opposition still leave two back anyway and if you have one up front he has zero chance of getting the ball when cleared anyway.

Its not an indicator we are too defensive.

 

[EastStandBlue]

BINGO!

Eleven men back defending a corner, that's the last one I needed for a full house.

What have I won?

 

[chapperzUK]

Its where we see it differently. If Corr is lone up front the ball is played to him high for his head. If he is furthest forward the flick on and knock down is wasted and the ball into channels is pointless. If you were playing two up top,Corr stayed in the middle and A N OTHER ran the channels to deliver to Corr in the middle, then maybe. But PB puts his side out to have one main player up front.

This goes back to where I said earlier about the support from the wingers and the attacking midfielder playing in behind the striker.

Our forward never has the luxury of support play,Corr will never be able to hold it then lay it off mainly because he is outnumbered and fighting to even win the ball and on the rare occasion he gets the better of the defenders he has nobody in support.

Phil sets up the team not to concede and he blames the refs or wayward shooting but his team have never scored many throughout his career as a manager,When he was at Preston they began well under him with his striker scoring for fun yet when that striker was injured Preston went into free fall and Phil was sacked!

My point with Phil he has only one game play and IMO cannot adapt.

Corr's hold up play is very good, but if there is no support then it is irrelevant. This goes back to what I was saying earlier and that we need someone behind the striker to be able to support by either going short or beyond the striker.

This season is different to last because we are creating more chances, just not putting them away which will hopefully change once the team is more settled. We've seen it before, all it takes is one goal to boost the confidence of a player and they can go on a decent scoring run. What we don't want to be doing is panicking and changing the team every game or two and expecting things to change overnight.

 

[mrsblue]

The wingers have to defend or our fullbacks will have 2 players to contend with, just like against Carlisle leading to their goal and numerous other chances. The wingers got back and defended, but quickly got up field when an attack was on. Just like how Mourinho won the CL with Inter, Eto'o was tracking back defending when required but was ready for when they attacked.

I have watched us defend corners and we always leave 1 up front, like pretty much every team does.

Whenever I watch us we defend every corner with everyone back which has those around me spitting blood who realise it will come straight back when the ball is cleared.

No player on this earth can constantly sprint back 80 yards to defend then sprint 110 yards to the bye line it's impossible,I like Hurst yet the poor bloke spends more time tracking his opponent than doing what he is best at which is to attack.

 

[Jam_Man]

Dunno about anyone else but in the highlights I've seen Corr make assists and set up gilt-edged chances for Shaq. The problem is Shaq needs a goal to boost his confidence. I'm sure he'll come good and you know exactly what you're getting with Corr, his teammates need to get a bit closer.

Indeed, Corr needs support, when he gets it he is great at holding the ball up and laying it off.

Whether that comes from a midfielder just behind him, a stiker along side him or two wide players it doesnt matter. Someone needs to be close to feed of of him which didnt happen enough last season. It was a lot better earlier though and Shaq and Weston were getting the benefit, even if they hit the corner flag afterwards :smile:

 

[Jam_Man]

Whenever I watch us we defend every corner with everyone back which has those around me spitting blood who realise it will come straight back when the ball is cleared.

No player on this earth can constantly sprint back 80 yards to defend then sprint 110 yards to the bye line it's impossible,I like Hurst yet the poor bloke spends more time tracking his opponent than doing what he is best at which is to attack.

Already replied to the corner, its a common tactic we have used since Tilson at times.

As for Hurst, yes he does track opponents as any wide player should or their fullbacks will run riot. Are you suggesting our wide players shouldnt have to!?

 

[chapperzUK]

No player on this earth can constantly sprint back 80 yards to defend then sprint 110 yards to the bye line it's impossible,I like Hurst yet the poor bloke spends more time tracking his opponent than doing what he is best at which is to attack.

The wingers job is to mark the full back to stop a 2 v 1 happening on our full back. The winger just has to be 5 yards in front of him and track any run he makes, so unless he is facing a full back who is extremely adventurous then he won't be sprinting to get back or 110 yards to get forward.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Already replied to the corner, its a common tactic we have used since Tilson at times.

As for Hurst, yes he does track opponents as any wide player should or their fullbacks will run riot. Are you suggesting our wide players shouldnt have to!?

Nope. They will track back and should and that is why it is 4-5-1 and not 4-3-3. It means in reality we have 1 main striker, who is often too deep himself, and means we lack role specific firepower.

 

[mrsblue]

Already replied to the corner, its a common tactic we have used since Tilson at times.

As for Hurst, yes he does track opponents as any wide player should or their fullbacks will run riot. Are you suggesting our wide players shouldnt have to!?

Phil has drummed into his players defend defend defend hence why we don't concede many and sadly we don't score many!,I like wide men to not be so restricted in constantly tracking back BUT they need to every now and again but not all the time.

Prosser said they had practiced defending all week prior to the trip to Argyle so Phil's game plan is defend and nick one at the other end.Scenario if we had gone there with 2 up front and scored in the first 15 then with the red card at least we are defending a slender lead.

Defending corners we are playing 11 v 7 in the box no need for such a tactic.

 

[Jam_Man]

Phil has drummed into his players defend defend defend hence why we don't concede many and sadly we don't score many!,

Phil drums into the team defend defend defend, yet we have more shots on goal than every team we play against.

I like wide men to not be so restricted in constantly tracking back BUT they need to every now and again but not all the time.

Now and again?!?! They have to track back EVERY time in every formation or the opposition fullbacks and wide players would be steam rolling our fullbacks. Thats not being over defensve, its basic tactics. Surely even in "womens" football they do that?!

Prosser said they had practiced defending all week prior to the trip to Argyle so Phil's game plan is defend and nick one at the other end.Scenario if we had gone there with 2 up front and scored in the first 15 then with the red card at least we are defending a slender lead.

So because Prosser said we were practicing defending that means we didnt do any work on attacking I suppose? Even though Phil Brown said the other day we were working on how to create better chances in our attacking play

Defending corners we are playing 11 v 7 in the box no need for such a tactic.

Its a tactic many managers, including going back to Tilson employ, it does annoy people but as Ive already said its because the one man left up front has zero chance of actually winning the clearance and there is more chance of conceding from the corner than him doing so.

The wingers have to defend or our fullbacks will have 2 players to contend with, just like against Carlisle leading to their goal and numerous other chances. The wingers got back and defended, but quickly got up field when an attack was on. Just like how Mourinho won the CL with Inter, Eto'o was tracking back defending when required but was ready for when they attacked.

I have watched us defend corners and we always leave 1 up front, like pretty much every team does.

To be honest I was pretty sure we did too but havent been to away games.

Corr certainly comes back for corners and rightly so.

 

[TTS]

So after 13 pages it is widely agreed that people all have different ideas on formations. Sadly the only person that can be judged is PB and really he is damned if does and damned if he doesnt.

We can all talk about Germany and goals and who we would play and in what position, yet we ALL can hide behind our keyboards, or pints, or programmes and say how we would be different from PB, or PS or who ever is in charge, yet we can never be bought to task about our views.

The one thing is though, it seems that with some, there is an under current of people that want PB to fail, just so they can say that their own "Champiosnhip Manager" formation would have dont better ....

Oh wonders of football, its all about opinions with fans, never fact, as we can never be proved right or wrong !

Personally, for me, I trust PB. I like that he doesnt want to conceed goals in the hope that we can score more, for me that is a tactic that doesnt work, as I would like to thing that we can keep games tight and look to nick a win, as opposed to chase a game. But that is my own opinion. I think we have the players in the squad that can get the goals to win games and quite frankly I would take 1-0 every game, as all I want to do is get out of this league. Entertainment derives from confidence and when we was on a run last season, Millwall, Chesterfield, Portsmouth away etc, will live long in the memory and for me dispeals the negitivity shown to PB by some on this thread in that his teams cant score goals !!

 

[chapperzUK]

Phil has drummed into his players defend defend defend hence why we don't concede many and sadly we don't score many!,I like wide men to not be so restricted in constantly tracking back BUT they need to every now and again but not all the time.

Prosser said they had practiced defending all week prior to the trip to Argyle so Phil's game plan is defend and nick one at the other end.Scenario if we had gone there with 2 up front and scored in the first 15 then with the red card at least we are defending a slender lead.

Defending corners we are playing 11 v 7 in the box no need for such a tactic.

You make it sound like we have everyone behind the ball and hope to nick a goal, which isn't what I see. When we don't have the ball then we become solid, but every team does that otherwise if you have 2 strikers and 2 wingers up front, the 2 midfielders get overrun and defending becomes almost impossible.

Another scenario made up. Could easily have conceded in the first 15 minutes and then got a red card, meaning we could have been battered by 3 or more.

Defending corners, we always have 1 up there - although you've ignored this again - who is against 2 defenders. Then you have a goalkeeper who isn't marking anyone and at least 1 on the post and most likely 1 between the 6 yard box and the corner taker. That suddenly becomes a 7 v 7 for the rest.

 

[Jam_Man]

So after 13 pages it is widely agreed that people all have different ideas on formations. Sadly the only person that can be judged is PB and really he is damned if does and damned if he doesnt.

We can all talk about Germany and goals and who we would play and in what position, yet we ALL can hide behind our keyboards, or pints, or programmes and say how we would be different from PB, or PS or who ever is in charge, yet we can never be bought to task about our views.

The one thing is though, it seems that with some, there is an under current of people that want PB to fail, just so they can say that their own "Champiosnhip Manager" formation would have dont better ....

Oh wonders of football, its all about opinions with fans, never fact, as we can never be proved right or wrong !

Personally, for me, I trust PB. I like that he doesnt want to conceed goals in the hope that we can score more, for me that is a tactic that doesnt work, as I would like to thing that we can keep games tight and look to nick a win, as opposed to chase a game. But that is my own opinion. I think we have the players in the squad that can get the goals to win games and quite frankly I would take 1-0 every game, as all I want to do is get out of this league. Entertainment derives from confidence and when we was on a run last season, Millwall, Chesterfield, Portsmouth away etc, will live long in the memory and for me dispeals the negitivity shown to PB by some on this thread in that his teams cant score goals !!

Well said.

We all have our own opinions and no one knows exactly what or wouldnt work as its just guesswork. Even if one tactic worked one week it might not work the next anyway.

Some people however seem to think that their suggestion is the be all and end all and if we just played more attacking we would simply score more goals. If football management were that easy we wouldnt need Phil Brown.

PS I took Southend to the Premiership and now play in a 90,000 capacity stadium and have won the league 10 years in a row and just won every club trophy going 3 years in a row bar one FA Cup. So I DO know what Im talking about.:smile:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm concerned this thread may run out of stream, maybe a yes / no poll can be added?

 

[Jam_Man]

I'm concerned this thread may run out of stream, maybe a yes / no poll can be added?

That would require anyone actually remembering what the thread is about.