The EU Referendum

[RHB]

The IRA are like old Marxists sitting in the Spanish sunshine, when they speak nobody really takes any notice.:winking:

Besides before you call me naïve you might want to look up the Labour MP shot and stabbed thread and read post number 40

I was aware of your background and understand that you do have an insight into NI, no doubt about it. Perhaps you interpreted naïve in a more disapproving way than it was meant, if that was the case I apologise. I don't agree with your IRA assessment however, so will have to agree to disagree.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Every morning I get up and think, it's over, forget politics and get back to a normal life...............I'm starting to fear this is never ending (in the short/medium term anyway). I don't ever remember, in my life, such a turbulent time in British politics. If the referendum wasn't enough, follow that with the resignation of a Prime Minister, a Leader of the Opposition under serious threat and headline stories continually appearing............everthing is in a state of flux...........absolutely CRAZY times.

 

[rigsby]

I was aware of your background and understand that you do have an insight into NI, no doubt about it. Perhaps you interpreted naïve in a more disapproving way than it was meant, if that was the case I apologise. I don't agree with your IRA assessment however, so will have to agree to disagree.

The point is the IRA tried to get a united Ireland through the barrel of a gun because the majority of people in the North would never vote for it. Including many Catholics. That has not changed.

What has changed is the peoples attitude towards such activities as murder and bombings. The IRA can no longer rule with fear. They are no longer funded from America. At least some good came from people jumping from the 95th floor of the twin towers.

There are many other reasons such as modern technology and peoples willing to help the authorities etc which make it hard for anyone to operate as terrorists on any organised scale in a modern Weston society.

The IRA and the likes of Adams and McGuiness absolutely know this. So yes we will still see isolated incidents but nothing on a grand scale. I'm sure you remember the headline news on TV every night in the 70's was always about the latest atrocity in NI. (if there wasn't a power cut of course)

Besides paramilitaries from both sides have learnt that drug dealing is far more safer, profitable and far more fun than killing each other.:thumbsup:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Just like your confident Remain prediction your wrong again.

This time for two reason ...1) 1965 is included in the boomer years, as It was the year of the highest births....2) I was born in 1964 anyway. I know your trying to be smart when you have mentioned my age a few times, but even you should know that if I was born in the second half of the year then I would not be 52 yet.

I do beg your humble.It was a "guesstimate" that's all.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

FWIW,I reckon this will be an exam question that future history teachers will be setting before long:-

Which of the following was the greatest ever blunder by a British Prime-Minister?

A) David Cameron's decision to hold a referendum on the EU and the subsequent "Brexit" Vote in 2016?

B) Antony Eden's decision to invade Suez in 1956?

C) Neville Chamberlain's return from Munich in 1939,proclaiming "peace in or time"?

Discuss.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

FWIW,I reckon this will be an exam question that future history teachers will be setting before long:-

Which of the following was the greatest ever blunder by a British Prime-Minister?

A) David Cameron's decision to hold a referendum on the EU and the subsequent "Brexit" Vote in 2016?

B) Antony Eden's decision to invade Suez in 1956?

C) Neville Chamberlain's return from Munich in 1939,proclaiming "peace in or time"?

Discuss.

D) Blair fakes WMD (destoys trust of public) and opens doors to swamp UK with migrants causing (to large extent) Brexit journey to kick start.

E) JC elected Labour leader so leaving void of credible opposition; and undertakes sabotage of Remain campaign while working for Putin.

 

[Supernaut]

D) Blair fakes WMD (destoys trust of public) and opens doors to swamp UK with migrants causing (to large extent) Brexit journey to kick start

...while at the same time becoming the lapdog of arguably the thickest right-wing warmonger to ever enter the Oval Office, alienating many of Labour's core support from which the party is still suffering two decades later...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Some sort of caring left wing Socialist you are. I bet you've really got two shirts and two pairs of shoes!

Ha! Don't forget I remember Tony from the days when he used to flog his WTSSG fanzine outside the Victoria Avenue entrance to Roots Hall.:smile:

One piece of advice I would give him and his good lady, (if they haven't done this already), is to pop down to their local prefecture (on the basis that they've been living in France for more than 5 years) and apply for a "permanent " residents' card (carte de séjour EU-séjour permanent).Some legal experts believe that may confer proof of an "aquired right" of residence.

Btw,I most certainly do have more than two shirts and two pairs of shoes.

(Not sure that makes me a capitalist,as such.:winking:

 

[RHB]

D) Blair fakes WMD (destoys trust of public) and opens doors to swamp UK with migrants causing (to large extent) Brexit journey to kick start.

E) JC elected Labour leader so leaving void of credible opposition; and undertakes sabotage of Remain campaign while working for Putin.

You would probably lose marks for answering E Massimo because JC hasn't been, nor never will be, a Prime Minister and the question is quite specific there!

 

[mfurok]

Complete and utter rubbish. The guardian is like its readers arrogant and out of touch.

Now now.

You're off on those incorrect sweeping generalisations again.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

You would probably lose marks for answering E Massimo because JC hasn't been, nor never will be, a Prime Minister and the question is quite specific there!

In every set of multi choice/selection questions there is always one obvious RED herring among them.:winking:

Just good teaching/quiz setting, Barna ought to know that there should be more than 3 options.:whistling:

 

[londonblue]

Do you have a source for this? Because I haven't seen it. If it's true and the government has ignored it then that's only fair. A 35% vote on a 45% turn out then fair enough. 52% vote on 72% turn out is perfectly valid. To declare it otherwise flies in the face of democracy and self-determination. Neither side have nor would have any grounds to push for a 2nd vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not off hand, but it's easily validated if you want to.

It might be your view that the percentages involved make it perfectly valid, but it does mean only 37.5% voted for it. That is just over 1/3. Don't also forget that had the vote been the other way NF himself had already said he would push for a 2nd vote, ie he wouldn't have considered it valid.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Q. Do you trust and believe politicians?
Q. Are politicos thick (as in stupid)
Q. Are large parts of the voting spectrum on the closer to naive than learned side of knowledge?

IF, BIG IF, the EU faced it's problems, many of which are the Brexit argument AND, IF they got some maturity/business acumen then a solution that wasn't calamity for everyone might be achieved.
Cammie, JC, Junker, Holland, Merkel, Boris etc ALL say they are politicians and want a better EU then how about they knock some heads together, climb down from their empire egos and do the job they are paid to do - BETTER and in quick time.
IF they had given Cammie some slack back then we all might not now have a stress hangover.


#neversayneverbeforethefatladysings
#pridegoesbeforeafall.

 

[Bielzibubz]

On line petition for a second referendum is under investigation for fraud. Shall I tell them the government website and the petition was hacked by 4Chan which is why there are 70k votes from The Vatican �� �� �� ��

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

D) Blair fakes WMD (destoys trust of public) and opens doors to swamp UK with migrants causing (to large extent) Brexit journey to kick start.

E) JC elected Labour leader so leaving void of credible opposition; and undertakes sabotage of Remain campaign while working for Putin.

You're quite right to call me out on D.TB's use of WMD to start an illegal war with Iraq was certainly one of the most flagrant abuses of political power in recent times.

So, more arguably,was Labour's immigration policy under Blair/Brown.

I'm afraid E is just Daily Fail and Torygraph stuff however.

 

[Jam_Man]

FWIW,I reckon this will be an exam question that future history teachers will be setting before long:-

Which of the following was the greatest ever blunder by a British Prime-Minister?

A) David Cameron's decision to hold a referendum on the EU and the subsequent "Brexit" Vote in 2016?

B) Antony Eden's decision to invade Suez in 1956?

C) Neville Chamberlain's return from Munich in 1939,proclaiming "peace in or time"?

Discuss.

Holding Brexit referendum was not the actual failing here.

Whatever other arguments both sides have made the underlying issue has been immigration.

The government's failing over the last decade, both labour and Tory is to completely ignore the issue. Even during the referendum someone would raise immigration and the 'Remain' response would be the economy would suffer, so ignored it yet again.

Two general elections passed and the issue wasnt addressed, they said they would control immigration, but were only talking non-EU.

By not facing this issue they allowed UKIP to rise and for leave to then win the referendum which has resulted in us being out of the EU and will no doubt result in the end of Great Britain.

This failure rests squarely on both Labour and Conservative governments, both allowed this situation to develop over their terms in office.

 

[Napster]

From Boris' Telegraph column...

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be. There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment. EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.

Isn't that just the EU?

 

[londonblue]

From Boris' Telegraph column...

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be. There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment. EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.

Isn't that just the EU?

Firstly, No **** Sherlock. Even I know that and I gave up Geography.

However, more seriously. We can't accept that, because the issue of immigration was a big deal in this referendum. So, if we don't accept free movement of people then the rest of what he says is not going to happen.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Isn't that just the EU?

Indeed. When Brexiters realise that their vote meant **** all, will there be rioting in the streets of Castle Point? No one in the political class, apart from that grinning fool Farage actually wanted this, and I doubt he even expected it.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

From Boris' Telegraph column...

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be. There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment. EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.

Isn't that just the EU?

Yes, I'm confused. Johnson now says that we will remain in the single market. Doesn't that mean we will have to accept free movement of labour? Doesn't it also mean we shall have to continue contributing to the EU for this privilege? So in brief, there will be no difference in immigration and we will continue our contributions...........but we shall no longer have a voice in the EU. That sounds a good deal! :winking:..........perhaps Rigsby or one of the other ardent Brexiters could explain please.