The EU Referendum

[Bielzibubz]

Do leave voters not feel duped at all? Farage backtracking on their funding claims for the NHS, and Hannan saying immigration may not be reduced? What exactly have you voted for?

And if you'd done your homework you'd have voted knowing that both these were soundbites and seen through them, like I did. So, no I don't feel duped.

As for your second point.

1. Not being part of a corrupt and undemocratic club that stifles global free trade.
2. Putting the power to control our borders back into the hand of those WE vote to do it.
3. Being able to spend however we want the £180m (conservative estimate) we give weekly to the EU on services and projects in this country.

That's just three. I can't be arsed to post more. Hope that helps.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Indeed. What have Brexiters voted for?

Poverty, mass unemployment, a huge recession, the break up of the UK, the possible re-emergence of the IRA. For what exactly?...Some misguided notion that Britain of 2016 is Britain of 1956.

Christ on a bike. I thought Keith Vaz was a hysterical wet bag. Get a damn grip woman.


Edited, apologies. Swear filter bypass wasn't intentional ;)

 

[rigsby]

At 51, I'm not at all sure you still qualify as a "baby boomer.":winking:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers

"Baby boomers are people born during the demographic post–World War II baby boom approximately between the years 1946 and 1964. This includes people who are between 52 and 70 years old in 2016."

Just like your confident Remain prediction your wrong again.

This time for two reason ...1) 1965 is included in the boomer years, as It was the year of the highest births....2) I was born in 1964 anyway. I know your trying to be smart when you have mentioned my age a few times, but even you should know that if I was born in the second half of the year then I would not be 52 yet.

 

[Medway Blue]

Many of us are of the opinion that staying in would cause trouble down the line too. Either decision is/was a risk but people interpret the risks differently.

Everything I've read on HSBC suggests that their plans have little to do with Brexit. The bank announced plans to cut around 50,000 jobs worldwide and possibly move its HQ last June - 7-8,000 of those cuts may be UK-based and 2,000 from London. The vast majority of them will come from selling most of its operations in Brazil and Turkey. They made the decision because they want to cut costs in the wake of poor share price performance over the last 5 years, cause by the growing cost of regulation (funny, most of that originates in Brussels), fines, and Osborne's Bank Levy and higher Corp Tax. So sorry, but I don't blame HSBC's plans on Brexit.

If any Brexiters are like me then they considered everything on both sides and made their decision from their own reading, choosing what they thought was best. It's an opinion, yet many Remainers seem to be dealing in absolutes and hard facts only - when in reality there are very few of them.

Don't get me started on "the futures of the young". Some of the stuff I've seen written has been truly staggering, much of it from 16-21 year olds. We might as well euthanise the "baby boomer" and over-65 section of the electorate since apparently their opinion matters not. The sense of entitlement from the youth, the "**** everyone's opinion, it's all about me and people should be voting for my future only", is truly staggering - coming from a section of society with little-to-no life experience. I blame Blair for stoking that attitude in the youth, but it's unbelievably disrespectful.

Perhaps it just doesn't occur to some people that for many of the generations who voted in the 1970s and were straight-up lied to by Heath and leaders of the EC who then conspired between them to hide the true goals and ambitions of the "free trade union" from the British public, the EU might not represent the best option for the future generations. I'd suggest that the benefit of decades of life experience and the benefit of having been around to vote in the least referendum and then watch as the EEC morphed into the political and federal project that it is today, puts that generation in a better position than the youth to say whether they think the EU is good for future generations. I don't blame them for being angry about being lied to and they have every right in a democratic country to reflect that anger and distrust in the way that they vote. Just because they may be dead soon, doesn't make their opinion invalid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Medway Blue]

HSBC is already moving 2000 jobs from the City - you think this is going to be the end of job losses? In NI, most Protestant areas voted out, most Catholic areas voted remain. I am truly staggered how any Brexiters didn't consider the huge damage that an out vote would impact on the country and the futures of the young.

Many of us are of the opinion that staying in would cause trouble down the line too. Either decision is/was a risk but people interpret the risks differently.

Everything I've read on HSBC suggests that their plans have little to do with Brexit. The bank announced plans to cut around 50,000 jobs worldwide and possibly move its HQ last June - 7-8,000 of those cuts may be UK-based and 2,000 from London. The vast majority of them will come from selling most of its operations in Brazil and Turkey. They made the decision because they want to cut costs in the wake of poor share price performance over the last 5 years, cause by the growing cost of regulation (funny, most of that originates in Brussels), fines, and Osborne's Bank Levy and higher Corp Tax. So sorry, but I don't blame HSBC's plans on Brexit.

If any Brexiters are like me then they considered everything on both sides and made their decision from their own reading, choosing what they thought was best. It's an opinion, yet many Remainers seem to be dealing in absolutes and hard facts only - when in reality there are very few of them.

Don't get me started on "the futures of the young". Some of the stuff I've seen written has been truly staggering, much of it from 16-21 year olds. We might as well euthanise the "baby boomer" and over-65 section of the electorate since apparently their opinion matters not. The sense of entitlement from the youth, the "**** everyone's opinion, it's all about me and people should be voting for my future only", is truly staggering - coming from a section of society with little-to-no life experience. I blame Blair for stoking that attitude in the youth, but it's unbelievably disrespectful.

Perhaps it just doesn't occur to some people that for many of the generations who voted in the 1970s and were straight-up lied to by Heath and leaders of the EC who then conspired between them to hide the true goals and ambitions of the "free trade union" from the British public, the EU might not represent the best option for the future generations. I'd suggest that the benefit of decades of life experience and the benefit of having been around to vote in the least referendum and then watch as the EEC morphed into the political and federal project that it is today, puts that generation in a better position than the youth to say whether they think the EU is good for future generations. I don't blame them for being angry about being lied to and they have every right in a democratic country to reflect that anger and distrust in the way that they vote. Just because they may be dead soon, doesn't make their opinion invalid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rigsby]

Indeed. What have Brexiters voted for?

Poverty, mass unemployment, a huge recession, the break up of the UK, the possible re-emergence of the IRA. For what exactly?...Some misguided notion that Britain of 2016 is Britain of 1956.

Complete and utter rubbish. The guardian is like its readers arrogant and out of touch.

 

[rigsby]

HSBC is already moving 2000 jobs from the City - you think this is going to be the end of job losses? In NI, most Protestant areas voted out, most Catholic areas voted remain. I am truly staggered how any Brexiters didn't consider the huge damage that an out vote would impact on the country and the futures of the young.

Your point is what exactly?

A lot of Nationalists are like the Jocks and even lefties from Surrey, they don't want to see Westminster have more power because their form of politics will never be in charge.

We won't be seeing any armed struggles in Surrey, Edinburgh or in NI for that matter. The IRA like Marxism was a thing of the 70's for people who became radical in the late 60's. Fortunately both have died a death and the younger generations from both sides in NI will make sure it stays that way.

 

[RHB]

Your point is what exactly?

A lot of Nationalists are like the Jocks and even lefties from Surrey, they don't want to see Westminster have more power because their form of politics will never be in charge.

We won't be seeing any armed struggles in Surrey, Edinburgh or in NI for that matter. The IRA like Marxism was a thing of the 70's for people who became radical in the late 60's. Fortunately both have died a death and the younger generations from both sides in NI will make sure it stays that way.

I think you might be a little premature in your assessment of the IRA Rigsby. Not that it really affects this thread.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-alibi-for-unionist-politicians-10477101.html

 

[rigsby]

I think you might be a little premature in your assessment of the IRA Rigsby. Not that it really affects this thread.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-alibi-for-unionist-politicians-10477101.html

Ever since the ceasefire of 1995 there have been occasional murders, usually to settle old scores within terrorist groups. What we haven't seen is the bombing of Belfast city centre or any other mass murders.

What I can assure you of is the next generation from both sides in NI will never allow those days to return. They are the reason we have had peace in NI and its certainly not down to Ken Livingstone or Jeremy Corbyn as they like to claim.

For the Guardian to claim otherwise, is the equivalent of the Sun saying 400million Europeans are on their way to Britain. Only an utter fool would believe it.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

If the 2008 crash hadn't happened, would we be where we are now? I don't think so; therefore, underlying all the arguments, are we really looking at a failure of capitalism to provide for the needs of those whom are incapable of benefiting from it (now presumably in the majority)? Has capitalism followed communism as an economic system which is not longer fit for purpose? If so what needs to follow??? ......................discuss :smile:

 

[OldBlueLady]

For those talking about HSBC, I just received this email which has obviously gone to all account holders with email addresses on file:

[TABLE="class: yiv5800222324w280, width: 550, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Yesterday the UK voted to leave the EU. There has been a lot of debate in recent months on what the outcome of this Referendum will mean for the UK. Now we know the result we can start to provide you with information.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Commenting on today's result the Group Chairman of HSBC, Douglas Flint, said:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 30, align: left"]“[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]We are today entering a new era for Britain and British business. The work to establish fresh terms of trade with our European and global partners will be complex and time consuming. We will be working tirelessly in the coming weeks and months to help our customers adjust to and prepare for the new environment.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]As one of the largest, most stable, liquid and prudent financial institutions in the world, HSBC is well placed to support our customers and the markets as they deal with the challenges that will arise. Our commitment to British businesses, customers and staff in the UK remains undiminished.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: left"]”[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Further updates will be issued over the coming days and we will keep you informed about any changes which might impact you.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Bielzibubz]

OBL, know your place. You can't be posting controversial factual pieces like that contradict the cherry picked articles of others :smile:

 

[OldBlueLady]

OBL, know your place. You can't be posting controversial factual pieces like that contradict the cherry picked articles of others :smile:

Ok, back to Facebook or the kitchen for me then :winking:

 

[RHB]

Ever since the ceasefire of 1995 there have been occasional murders, usually to settle old scores within terrorist groups. What we haven't seen is the bombing of Belfast city centre or any other mass murders.

What I can assure you of is the next generation from both sides in NI will never allow those days to return. They are the reason we have had peace in NI and its certainly not down to Ken Livingstone or Jeremy Corbyn as they like to claim.

For the Guardian to claim otherwise, is the equivalent of the Sun saying 400million Europeans are on their way to Britain. Only an utter fool would believe it.

My link was from the independent, I'm not sure where the Guardian bit came from. I agree that there has been very little activity in Belfast, but to think that the IRA have gone away is naïve.

 

[londonblue]

What are the rules of an EU referendum vote then?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The rules are that if the result is less than 60% on a turnout of less than 75% then the vote should be re-run. I'm guessing that the reason is that the rule ensures that at least 45% of people vote for it rather than the 37.5% that actually did. Moreover NF said he would push for a 2nd vote if it was close the other way, and he would have been within his rights to do so.

The problem is that the government decided a long time ago that that wouldn't be applied.

 

[rigsby]

My link was from the independent, I'm not sure where the Guardian bit came from. I agree that there has been very little activity in Belfast, but to think that the IRA have gone away is naïve.

The IRA are like old Marxists sitting in the Spanish sunshine, when they speak nobody really takes any notice.:winking:

Besides before you call me naïve you might want to look up the Labour MP shot and stabbed thread and read post number 40

 

[londonblue]

For those talking about HSBC, I just received this email which has obviously gone to all account holders with email addresses on file:

[TABLE="class: yiv5800222324w280, width: 550, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Yesterday the UK voted to leave the EU. There has been a lot of debate in recent months on what the outcome of this Referendum will mean for the UK. Now we know the result we can start to provide you with information.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Commenting on today's result the Group Chairman of HSBC, Douglas Flint, said:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 30, align: left"]“[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]We are today entering a new era for Britain and British business. The work to establish fresh terms of trade with our European and global partners will be complex and time consuming. We will be working tirelessly in the coming weeks and months to help our customers adjust to and prepare for the new environment.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]As one of the largest, most stable, liquid and prudent financial institutions in the world, HSBC is well placed to support our customers and the markets as they deal with the challenges that will arise. Our commitment to British businesses, customers and staff in the UK remains undiminished.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: left"]”[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Further updates will be issued over the coming days and we will keep you informed about any changes which might impact you.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

That doesn't say anything really. What you may well find is that over the next 6-12-24 months various aspects of bank business will slowly be moved. It won't happen overnight, but one day we'll realise that most of the new jobs in the banks (be they English, American or other) have gone elsewhere.

It's worth reading those posts on the other thread that I copied from FB.

 

[Medway Blue]

The rules are that if the result is less than 60% on a turnout of less than 75% then the vote should be re-run. I'm guessing that the reason is that the rule ensures that at least 45% of people vote for it rather than the 37.5% that actually did. Moreover NF said he would push for a 2nd vote if it was close the other way, and he would have been within his rights to do so.

The problem is that the government decided a long time ago that that wouldn't be applied.

Do you have a source for this? Because I haven't seen it. If it's true and the government has ignored it then that's only fair. A 35% vote on a 45% turn out then fair enough. 52% vote on 72% turn out is perfectly valid. To declare it otherwise flies in the face of democracy and self-determination. Neither side have nor would have any grounds to push for a 2nd vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bielzibubz]

A re run of the referendum won't happen. It's undemocratic and political suicide for any leader that tries to implement it. And more importantly the petition submitted BEFORE the referendum and cannot be implemented retrospectively. Now, the sooner some come to accept this the sooner we can all move on dealing with practical things.

Besides, are those clambering for a second vote the same remainers that were so vocal about the financial markets being so skittish about uncertainty and how much that uncwrtainty had cost? A second referendum with possibly the same outcome won't cause more of that will it now :facepalm:

Read this, it's a bit heavy but worth seeing through. It explains both why it won't happen and even if it did it probably wouldn't change the outcome.

http://www.science20.com/robert_inv..._signatures_over_8_of_total_votes_cast-175369

 

[Gremlin]

Both Gove & Johnson are pro-immigration - it'll still happen and I wouldn't be surprised if they give those from the EU that are here already a work visa - are you seriously thinking that in 2 years time the Government will forceably expel 1/2 million EU immigrants, those with full time jobs, kids in school and mortgages being paid? They barely touch the surface of the illegal immigrants here as it is.

Wow, just seen this.

Did anyone on here really believe that Brexit would put an end to ALL EU immigration? Did anyone really think that EU folk already here would be removed? Does anyone really want that anyway?