The American Gun Law

[WightShrimper]

It seems a sad fact that Americans love their guns more than they love their children.

 

[Beefy]

my wife and children are able to sleep soundly in their beds at night because Johnny Burglar and Winston Rapist don't fancy the odds of a homeowner packing a Tec-9. But I imagine that the self-righteous Brits are happier to look down their noses and keep repairing the shattered glass.

The rest of us aren't getting burgled in the middle of the night either.

Australia is the clear example of how amending gun laws to outlaw the sale of handguns can eliminate these massacres from happening without leading to the end of society as we know it.

How anyone sleeps soundly at night in a country where any lunatic can legally get hold of automatic and semi automatic weapons and go on a killing spree beats me.

 

[MK Shrimper]

It seems a sad fact that Americans love their guns more than they love their children.

Even I have an issue with that. Those Americans with guns in their house (like Rusty) believe (rightly or wrongly) that they are protecting their loved ones from criminals that have easy access to weapons.

 

[WightShrimper]

Even I take umbridge at that. Those Americans with guns in their house (like Rusty) believe (rightly or wrongly) that they are protecting their loved ones from criminals that have easy access to weapons.

But there has to come a point where you have to stand back and look at the bigger picture. OK, it's a sensational sound bite to say that they don't love their children, but until they can drop the 'I must have a gun to protect myself from a perceived threat' attitude, then NOTHING will ever change. It is not unlike a civil war when at some point one side has to put the past attrocites to one side (not forgotten, but put aside) so that peace talks can go ahead. In the States, something must be done to break the cycle of 'He's got a gun, so I need one to protect myself from him'.

 

[londonblue]

Yes there are, but we suffer a far lower rate of burglary and home invasion (in states and cities where gun ownership is permitted) than in the UK. I haven't blown away every rapist and burglar in my city, because none of them have tried to break into my house.

***Imagining Rusty dressing like Arnie in Commando and turning into a vigilante!***

 

[MK Shrimper]

But there has to come a point where you have to stand back and look at the bigger picture. OK, it's a sensational sound bite to say that they don't love their children, but until they can drop the 'I must have a gun to protect myself from a perceived threat' attitude, then NOTHING will ever change. It is not unlike a civil war when at some point one side has to put the past attrocites to one side (not forgotten, but put aside) so that peace talks can go ahead. In the States, something must be done to break the cycle of 'He's got a gun, so I need one to protect myself from him'.

But you can't compare violent criminals with an Army. A meth-addled drug addict who's desperate for their next hit won't think twice before breaking into someone's house or holding up the local Quik-E-Mart. Any form of gun control is 100 years too late for the US.

What you can't mitigate against are those with mental health problems who feel no empathy for the six year old kid they've got trained in the sights of their assault rifle.

 

[WightShrimper]

It's not an attempt to compare anything to anything else because most analogies are flawed. I am just trying to say that the whole system needs looking at from a distance and some strong unpopular decisions are going to have to be made if there is to be a safer future for the children. The situation cannot even be broken down into one (pro gun) side versus another (anti-gun) side because real life doesn't work that way: there are too many shades of grey between black and white. But my argument still stands that the belief in the gun as the saviour of mankind must change.
I am far from an expert on anything, but it does seem that the influential American lobbies are those that promote the likes of freedom to bear arms rather than pushing for better health and mental health issues.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It seems a sad fact that Americans love their guns more than they love their children.

Wonder where A Century United stands on this one?:unsure:

 

[londonblue]

I know Rusty might call this sanctimonious but I am so pleased I don't live in the US at the moment. I have family there, and studied American history to A-Level and have a genuine respect for the country as a whole, but I can also see its faults.

The biggest one for me is this gun ownership thing. I personally don't believe that the kind of weapons available today were predicted when the 2nd Amendment was adopted in 1791. Another fault is how difficult it is for Americans to change their constitution. A professor at one US university has worked out that, because each state has to agree to a change, as little as 2% of the population has the ability to veto an amendment. So the chances of real change being made are slim.

Personally If I lived in the US I doubt I would carry a gun, or even have one in my house. But, I wouldn't stop someone having something to protect themselves if necessary. However, for me that "protection" has to be proportionate. Having guns that can cause so much damage in such a short space of time is going beyond the right of protecting your own. It's being selfish. We know that having guns readily available makes massacres like this more likely. So what you're really doing is putting your rights ahead of the rights of children who actually aren't able to protect themselves.

Did you also know that Kinder Surprise chocolate eggs are illegal in the US...because they're a danger to children? You couldn't make it up.

 

[Pubey]

I know Rusty might call this sanctimonious but I am so pleased I don't live in the US at the moment. I have family there, and studied American history to A-Level and have a genuine respect for the country as a whole, but I can also see its faults.

The biggest one for me is this gun ownership thing. I personally don't believe that the kind of weapons available today were predicted when the 2nd Amendment was adopted in 1791. Another fault is how difficult it is for Americans to change their constitution. A professor at one US university has worked out that, because each state has to agree to a change, as little as 2% of the population has the ability to veto an amendment. So the chances of real change being made are slim.

Personally If I lived in the US I doubt I would carry a gun, or even have one in my house. But, I wouldn't stop someone having something to protect themselves if necessary. However, for me that "protection" has to be proportionate. Having guns that can cause so much damage in such a short space of time is going beyond the right of protecting your own. It's being selfish. We know that having guns readily available makes massacres like this more likely. So what you're really doing is putting your rights ahead of the rights of children who actually aren't able to protect themselves.

Did you also know that Kinder Surprise chocolate eggs are illegal in the US...because they're a danger to children. You couldn't make it up.

The reason I don't live in the US (and I've had several serious opportunities to) is not due to guns, but the other issue behind a lot of these mass shootings.

The care and system for people with mental health issues is shockingly poor for a country so apparently developed and civilised. You only need to get on the subway to see how there's a whole sub-population of people with mental health issues and suffering in severe poverty. There is no safety net for the most vulnerable, and they are invisible to other people. The gap between the very top and the very bottom is huge, however you can quickly find yourself in that situation. If you suddenly become ill then the health system will do everything it can to avoid giving you the care you need. One accident and you could lose your house and job and be out on the streets. If you're a veteran then you're unlikely to find decent opportunities and appropriate support when returning home. The country has major issues about how it helps those who need it.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Did you also know that Kinder Surprise chocolate eggs are illegal in the US...because they're a danger to children? You couldn't make it up.

On a completely different track here, but did you know that the container part of the Kinder egg is a huge favourite of prison inmates as it is an easy object in which to secret drugs away? :stunned:

 

[BrettieAngell]

You never seen 'Ben Hur'?

I haven't no.

 

[MK Shrimper]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-outside-Sandy-Hook-Elementary-school.html

On an aside, pity Adam Lanza didn't kill these evil, twisted ****ers rather 28 innocent kids and adults. The world would be a better place without the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[pickledseal]

Wrote a blog post today for my students: http://talkingdonkeyre.blogspot.com/2012/12/why-wasnt-god-at-sandy-hook.html

 

[MK Shrimper]

Wrote a blog post today for my students: http://talkingdonkeyre.blogspot.com/2012/12/why-wasnt-god-at-sandy-hook.html

Hence where I took the Westboro Baptist bit from!

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

So it was gods fault or was it father christma,s fault or the black ops game the numpty liked.
No,the kid had a screw loose lost the plot and wasted his mother and the kids that he felt in his muddled mind that she loved more than him,where was god in all this,well she was baking cakes id guess.

 

[Jam_Man]

God moves in mysterious ways. That answers that one.

Bloke was a nutter who had access to guns.

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

Read yesterday that since Columbine in '97, there's been 66 similar incidents. That's an average of one every 333 days. Not got a clue on how to stop it (politics aren't my forte) but for the love of God someone nip into Congress and give them a swift kick up the arse!

Based on those numbers it's more like 1 every 83 days, which is even more concerning.

 

[MK Shrimper]

The NRA's answer is having armed guards at every US school. :stunned:

 

[A Century United]

The NRA's answer is having armed guards at every US school. :stunned:

Indeed, and it may well be a sensible move at the moment, but that suggestion needs to come from sane security consultants. The NRA touting that "The answer to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" makes me nauseous.