Thanks Kev - but is a new manager needed?

[Che's Left Foot]

I can understand the thinking from the MODS on not closing this thread but from my perspective since November I have voted (once) and commented a few times. But I do believe that from the original question asked and the current standing of the poll it has run its course and served its purpose.
I would favour its closure as personally there is almost a inappropriate feeling towards its continuation due to a real lack of relevance based on our current league position and recent results.
The question posed has in the here and now been answered.

The part in bold is debatable and and reason enough to keep it open.

Win games and the thread falls rightly silent. Lose/draw with a poor performance or two, and this thread comes alive. That is what makes this site great.

There's no place for the personal insults that have been thrown around, and that is the sort of content that ideally should be modded. But us as fans should be free to debate the merits (or otherwise) of their manager. That is football.

Without wanting to sound like a scratched record, no one is obliged to comment, let alone even open this thread.

 

[BEERMONSTER]

The part in bold is debatable and and reason enough to keep it open.

Win games and the thread falls rightly silent. Lose/draw with a poor performance or two, and this thread comes alive. That is what makes this site great.

There's no place for the personal insults that have been thrown around, and that is the sort of content that ideally should be modded. But us as fans should be free to debate the merits (or otherwise) of their manager. That is football.

Without wanting to sound like a scratched record, no one is obliged to comment, let alone even open this thread.

Yes, fully understand where you are coming from and agree with the essence of what you are saying, wholeheartedly concur with view about no place for personal insults, well said.
You are right when you say football fans have a right to debate the merits and in their opinion the not so good points of the Head Coach of their team it's an omnipresent as a Supporter.
I am uncomfortable with this thread because I don't feel it was instigated with the intention to offer a platform for prelonged engagement and debate. It's intention was to gauge if we should have got rid of KM based on performance at the time, a one trick pony of a thread, which at the time and subsequently as I say in the present has had it's result.
I know the MODS refer to the fact close this one and another thread would start but personally I wouldn't be opposed to that especially if it's instigation was not formulated to a set agenda and without attached poll but set a platform that encouraged
more encompassing observation and open debate.

 

[Southend Elvis]

Strange idea to talk about closing this thread, has it been decided that KM should keep his job and no one can comment otherwise?
Maybe the only way it could be closed if a replacement topic, with a vote, saying something like Do you think KM will get us promoted?
But this thread tells us that there is quite a difference of opinion on the management, the whole point of a forum.

 

[Holy Joe]

has it been decided that KM should keep his job and no one can comment otherwise?
Maybe the only way it could be closed if a replacement topic, with a vote, saying something like Do you think KM will get us promoted?
But this thread tells us that there is quite a difference of opinion on the management, the whole point of a forum.

 

[Smiffy]

All views for or against or anything in between regarding any subject, as long as within site rules, are allowed on SZ. That’s what forums are for. Open discussion and debate.

If you do not like the tone of a particular thread, then you are not forced to read or take part. Just don’t open it, particularly if you know something has happened that will make it catch light. For instance with this thread, a few negative results or performances.

We do our best to remove anything inflammatory or against site rules, but it does also require a little self policing and posters not to act like children. Please report anything you feel breaches the rules, particularly personal abuse, which will not be tolerated.

Lastly, please do not forget there is an ignore function which allows you to place any member of your choice on ignore (Not the mods, lucky you) which will mute any of their posts. So if there’s a particular poster that winds you up with their viewpoint, place them on ignore.

 

[rigsby]

Don't think it was anyones view point that caused upset on this thread. It was more the tone of the Maher out 10 times week mob. Joyful posts after a defeat along the lines of "there can't be anyone left who can defend Maher".

Even if someone said they had doubts about Kev but he deserved fair go after the summer disaster. They were called out as summer has long gone or accused of "Rose tinted Glasses" etc.

Funny thing is its now the very posters who tried to silence debate, who are calling loudest for their right for an opinion. The same sort of people who gob off to the manger from the safety of the stand but then squeal when he turns round and gives it back.

Good on Kev for answering back. Live by the sword, then die by the sword.

 

[gatecrasher]

Regardless of a recent upturn, I am still of the opinion Kev is not the right man to take us up.

Over the last three seasons we always have these strong patches, but fundamentally we end up in around about the same place each season, just outside the playoffs ( appreciate that wouldn't of been the case if the 10 point deduction hadn't occurred).

Without knowledge, I'd hazard a guess we have a top 5 playing budget and yet we can seem to compete at that level. Barnet are a smaller club than us, regularly challenging, Gateshead a far smaller club again, regularly challenging, Bromley promoted out of this division - smaller club, smaller budget.

The playing style irks me a great deal, but if it was getting us into the top 3 I'd suck it up. We started looking good with the 3 up top, won a couple of games and then we revert back to Kevs beloved system and poor results occur once more.

I firmly believe we have a very good squad, I know we have no divine right to be challenging just because we are one of the bigger clubs in this league, but we are not and consistently are not.

If Kev takes us up next season I'd have no problem to admit I was wrong about him, however I am confident to state I don't think we will go up next season either, with him at the helm.

 

[maninasuitcase]

Most managers get the sack, very few leave for a 'better' clubs or have the luxury of retiring. My own personal opinion is that we would be foolish to sack Maher. I haven't seen the team as much as I would like recently, but it seems to me without him we would have had spell in NL2. Hopefully, we will back in L2 under Maher's guidance after the end of 26/27 season.

 

[bluethroughandthrough]

Is style of play making a difference?​

Much has been made this season about the increase in teams attacking quickly in transition, rather than the territory and possession-based football made so fashionable by Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola.

As Guardiola recently said himself: "Modern football is not positional. You have to ride the rhythm."

Teams like Bournemouth have had huge success playing in this more aggressive style - but does it also help sides playing away from home, with less onus on them to dominate the ball and push forward, but instead break quickly and hit teams on the counter-attack?

The percentage of goals scored after "fast breaks", according to Opta, has never been higher than this season.

 

[southchurch]

I would love us to play possession football and make the rest of the league teams look like amateurs. I hated it under Sturrock with the horrible hoof and run.
I can remember everyone then begging for us to play it on the floor. Unfortunately the players we have right now don't seem capable of playing this method successfully. You have to have skillful midfielders and forwards who make runs and find space. That leaves three choices. 1/ Work with the players you have. Drill them into playing the way you want them to and get the very best out of them. 2/ Bring in players who know how to play this way and get rid of the ones who can't. 3/ Change the way you play to match with the players you have. Don't ask them to do something they are just not capable of.
A very good manager will be pragmatic and try to get the system to fit the players. Then slowly over time bring in players who he believes can improve the standards of play to match his ambitions.
It's very difficult at this level to get skillful players. That's why they are non league players. We have not got the money to go out and buy these players. So Kev can either train what we have to be better or change the system.
Is he capable of either?

 

[Jay_SUFC]

I would love us to play possession football and make the rest of the league teams look like amateurs. I hated it under Sturrock with the horrible hoof and run.
I can remember everyone then begging for us to play it on the floor. Unfortunately the players we have right now don't seem capable of playing this method successfully. You have to have skillful midfielders and forwards who make runs and find space. That leaves three choices. 1/ Work with the players you have. Drill them into playing the way you want them to and get the very best out of them. 2/ Bring in players who know how to play this way and get rid of the ones who can't. 3/ Change the way you play to match with the players you have. Don't ask them to do something they are just not capable of.
A very good manager will be pragmatic and try to get the system to fit the players. Then slowly over time bring in players who he believes can improve the standards of play to match his ambitions.
It's very difficult at this level to get skillful players. That's why they are non league players. We have not got the money to go out and buy these players. So Kev can either train what we have to be better or change the system.
Is he capable of either?

I have no issue with possession football, but you have to apply pressure to the opposition as well - no point keep passing it sideways and backwards, without getting it forwards.

IMO we spend so much on worrying about the opposition, which might be fair enough against 1 or 2 sides, but there is no way we should be worrying about the rest of the teams - let them worry about us.

I don't mind if it's 3 up front, or 2 with one behind, but the issue on Saturday was playing Ralph at LWB - he does not get forward enough and as a result, we reduce our attacking threat (same happened against Sittingbourne).

I admit Bridge hasn't been great this season, but at least gets forward, but we certainly need another LWB (not sure why we haven't managed to get one).

 

[londonblue]

You all might want to download and read this:

What is the Impact of Changing Football Manager?

Here's a few quotes from the conclusion (the 2nd of which is probably the most pertinent):

Overall, changing manager seems to have a negligible effect on how well the club does over the longer-term. Indeed, if we look at the Premier League since 1992, it would appear that clubs do rather less well once the initial honeymoon period has passed than they did before changing their manager.

The second explanation is that switching to a different leader brings with it disruption which, in itself, can have a negative effect on performance (Grusky 1960, 1963,1964). Hope (2003) suggests that there are different phases in a football manager’s lifespan – some in which he may have a run of bad luck or a blip and others where performance may take a downturn whilst the manager is rebuilding for the longer term.

The data would suggest, however, that clubs may pull the trigger during a minor blip in performance rather than a sustained decline. Moreover, the level at which they do this, and the benefits gained from the switch may be less significant than they anticipate.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

I have no issue with possession football, but you have to apply pressure to the opposition as well - no point keep passing it sideways and backwards, without getting it forwards.

IMO we spend so much on worrying about the opposition, which might be fair enough against 1 or 2 sides, but there is no way we should be worrying about the rest of the teams - let them worry about us.

I don't mind if it's 3 up front, or 2 with one behind, but the issue on Saturday was playing Ralph at LWB - he does not get forward enough and as a result, we reduce our attacking threat (same happened against Sittingbourne).

I admit Bridge hasn't been great this season, but at least gets forward, but we certainly need another LWB (not sure why we haven't managed to get one).

We always seem to play better and look more fluid going forward when Bridge starts. We’ve not really got anyone who can do what he can do, I guess Walker can play the role but not as well (in my opinion). You can see why Maher picks Jack .. well usually. Not sure what happened at Tamworth.

 

[rlb999]

I would love us to play possession football and make the rest of the league teams look like amateurs. I hated it under Sturrock with the horrible hoof and run.
I can remember everyone then begging for us to play it on the floor. Unfortunately the players we have right now don't seem capable of playing this method successfully. You have to have skillful midfielders and forwards who make runs and find space. That leaves three choices. 1/ Work with the players you have. Drill them into playing the way you want them to and get the very best out of them. 2/ Bring in players who know how to play this way and get rid of the ones who can't. 3/ Change the way you play to match with the players you have. Don't ask them to do something they are just not capable of.
A very good manager will be pragmatic and try to get the system to fit the players. Then slowly over time bring in players who he believes can improve the standards of play to match his ambitions.
It's very difficult at this level to get skillful players. That's why they are non league players. We have not got the money to go out and buy these players. So Kev can either train what we have to be better or change the system.
Is he capable of either?

I didn't hate the football under Sturrock - at that point in our history it was exactly what we needed - hence why Sturrock was the guy that stopped the rot and got us pointing upwards again. It's what Maher needs to do.
I liked the football under Fry and under Webb - although I appreciate the game has to a large extent changed. Teams set up to attack and score goals. Both those managers would know that a point at Tamworth wasn't a good result.

 

[Holy Joe]

I didn't hate the football under Sturrock - at that point in our history it was exactly what we needed - hence why Sturrock was the guy that stopped the rot and got us pointing upwards again. It's what Maher needs to do.
I liked the football under Fry and under Webb - although I appreciate the game has to a large extent changed. Teams set up to attack and score goals. Both those managers would know that a point at Tamworth wasn't a good result.

You don't think Maher has stopped the rot and got us moving in a better direction? Didn't he take over after 2 successive relegations?

 

[Barling Magna]

Both those managers would know that a point at Tamworth wasn't a good result.

Rochdale have just scraped a draw at Tamworth with an additional time equaliser. That's not a good result either. Nor were the draws achieved at Tamworth by high flying York and Forest Green Rovers, nor Gateshead's defeat at Tamworth.

So it seems that whilst not being a good result our draw at Tamworth was neither surprising nor unusual.

 

[dusterman]

Interesting comments from Palace manager post match talking about players coming in late and poor pre season prep to blame for their slow start and better second half of season so far. He could have been sacked easily after 10/12 games of season. And he didn’t have anywhere near the kind of situation Kev had July/August time.

 

[It'sGrimUpNorth]

Good and welcome decision to keep this thread open. The debate should be allowed to continue, if not what is the point of a forum?

I disagree.