SUFC: The Future SUFC up for sale

[Cricko]

Love that idea.

 

[Target man]

Love that idea.

View attachment 28067

Very similar to Boreham and Potters Bar

 

[OldBlueLady]

Very similar to Boreham and Potters Bar

Don't Wycombe and Yeovil also have something similar?

 

[barton west]

Don't Wycombe and Yeovil also have something similar?

And Shrewsbury

 

[Strykr]

I was invited in to one of the new lounges at Stockport v Gills last Saturday, which I am told is a converted store room but following their investment from new ownership a few years back, it was great to see what the club are doing behind the scenes to significantly improve the match day experience. They have created a new fan zone in the car park behind the large Cheadle End with a large canopy tent roof, which serves street food and locally brewed beer etc. The lounge I was in was excellent. Fit out top notch with the food and service equally as good. Amazing what a new owner can achieve……

Not rocket science is it.

Totally achievable.

 

[Smiffy]

Genuine question -

Let's say Ron stays at the helm but raises enough money to fund the season without personally getting involved (yeah, yeah, I know, but humour me please).

So there's no more missed salaries, payments or tax bills, embargos, anything. No external noise. We can just concentrate on watching the footie.

Are we ok with that?

Sorry fbm, but my answer was made up for me in your first seven words.

As others have already said, for this club to move forward Ron must not be at the helm or have any legal control whatsoever over the football club, it's home or its finances. Even if Ron rocked up with £10m in £5 notes, I would still want him gone.

The dark cloud will not lift, nor true potential of this club be realised, until the day he departs. He goes, watch us fly. I'm counting down the days.

 

[Cricko]

Don't Wycombe and Yeovil also have something similar?

Yes but i cant see it happening atm with us as there would be people moaning everywhere.. "Why have i lost my carpark space" and TBF they have already paid for it this season. It would have to be done at the begining of a season before they issued parking spaces.

Of course people will moan anyway and it would have to be financially viable for the club.

 

[Medway Blue]

As i understand the publically stated monthly cost of running SUFC is 125,000 a month - but lets say 200k - i.e. 2.4 million per annum ...

The club turned over 3.9 million last 2022 - that means that 3.9 million quid came into SUFC bank accounts ..

People run NL league clubs on a 1.5 million turnover

Its a business - it brings in money through multiple source -

:: season ticket
:: match day ticket sales
:: sponsorship/hospitality
:: advertising
:: match day booze
:: burgers
:: burgers with onions
:: tv rights
:: player sales -

Not being rude but most people can see there is a viable business underneath the RM bull ...

The problem with fan owned clubs is going for growth ...

getting in a high level investment - thats why a shareholder model works well so that if someone wants to buy the club (like Eisner at Pompey) the fans can sell if they think its the right thing ..

That's not the monthly running cost. That's the monthly operating shortfall.

So as a crude example and plucking figures out of thin air, it could cost £350k all-in per month to run the club at its current level, but the club is only generating £225k revenue per month. Therefore it is not self-sufficient as things stand. £350k monthly costs - £225k monthly revenue = £125k shortfall which the owner has to find a way to cover.

Obviously, a smaller playing budget and/or a more competent owner would probably see the monthly running costs reduce, and speculating to accumulate by improving facilities and various offerings at Roots Hall could increase monthly revenue, so the shortfall could reduce even at Roots Hall.

 

[flangejackrabbit]

As i understand the publically stated monthly cost of running SUFC is 125,000 a month - but lets say 200k - i.e. 2.4 million per annum ...

The club turned over 3.9 million last 2022 - that means that 3.9 million quid came into SUFC bank accounts ..

People run NL league clubs on a 1.5 million turnover

Its a business - it brings in money through multiple source -

:: season ticket
:: match day ticket sales
:: sponsorship/hospitality
:: advertising
:: match day booze
:: burgers
:: burgers with onions
:: tv rights
:: player sales -

Not being rude but most people can see there is a viable business underneath the RM bull ...

The problem with fan owned clubs is going for growth ...

getting in a high level investment - thats why a shareholder model works well so that if someone wants to buy the club (like Eisner at Pompey) the fans can sell if they think its the right thing ..

The 100k a month (give or take) is to cover operating shortfall, the overall cost is 5.1m as of last accounts. This will have decreased somewhat since then but so will revenue.

 

[Target man]

Sorry fbm, but my answer was made up for me in your first seven words.

As others have already said, for this club to move forward Ron must not be at the helm or have any legal control whatsoever over the football club, it's home or its finances. Even if Ron rocked up with £10m in £5 notes, I would still want him gone.

The dark cloud will not lift, nor true potential of this club be realised, until the day he departs. He goes, watch us fly. I'm counting down the days.

Exactly this. We still have a lot of reputational damage as a result of his history and there are some good players we have lost, and lost out on coming, who would not come here whilst he is here .... and word spreads. Ron cannot repair that.

 

[Userorange]

4 : 0 Championes!

 

[londonblue]

That's not the monthly running cost. That's the monthly operating shortfall.

So as a crude example and plucking figures out of thin air, it could cost £350k all-in per month to run the club at its current level, but the club is only generating £225k revenue per month. Therefore it is not self-sufficient as things stand. £350k monthly costs - £225k monthly revenue = £125k shortfall which the owner has to find a way to cover.

Obviously, a smaller playing budget and/or a more competent owner would probably see the monthly running costs reduce, and speculating to accumulate by improving facilities and various offerings at Roots Hall could increase monthly revenue, so the shortfall could reduce even at Roots Hall.

As far as I understand it, maintenance of Roots Hall is extremely high (when it is actually paid for) and is killing us. A new owner can't suddenly magic that cost away. Over time that might reduce, but it will only do so if a lot of money is spent on it up front. Either way, it needs a whole load of money spent on it, either ongoing or as a one off with a smaller amount per month.

 

[Suffolk Blue]

That's not the monthly running cost. That's the monthly operating shortfall.

So as a crude example and plucking figures out of thin air, it could cost £350k all-in per month to run the club at its current level, but the club is only generating £225k revenue per month. Therefore it is not self-sufficient as things stand. £350k monthly costs - £225k monthly revenue = £125k shortfall which the owner has to find a way to cover.

Obviously, a smaller playing budget and/or a more competent owner would probably see the monthly running costs reduce, and speculating to accumulate by improving facilities and various offerings at Roots Hall could increase monthly revenue, so the shortfall could reduce even at Roots Hall.

Have these operating costs included the rent and other payments to Ron; which would go when he goes? Even if they haven't been being paid and are just paper debts.

Also, do they include interest payments on the loans the club has been saddled with; again which would presumably (hopefully) go if we are sold and debts are settled.

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

That's not the monthly running cost. That's the monthly operating shortfall.

So as a crude example and plucking figures out of thin air, it could cost £350k all-in per month to run the club at its current level, but the club is only generating £225k revenue per month. Therefore it is not self-sufficient as things stand. £350k monthly costs - £225k monthly revenue = £125k shortfall which the owner has to find a way to cover.

Obviously, a smaller playing budget and/or a more competent owner would probably see the monthly running costs reduce, and speculating to accumulate by improving facilities and various offerings at Roots Hall could increase monthly revenue, so the shortfall could reduce even at Roots Hall.

Ron has always stated that we operate at a loss and he has to make up the difference. You seemed to have echoed that.

I really don't see how any new owner can make up the shortfall while trying to be competitive on the pitch too whilst remaining at Roots Hall. Sprucing up the old girl and a few beer tents in the carpark aren't realistically going to make up that shortfall. As much as we all dislike Ron, I really don't think that a man that is apparently only in things for the money, would have ignored money making opportunities to cover the shortfall while at Roots Hall. Maybe he ignored the little opportunities because they simply aren't sufficient enough to make up the shortfall and are therefore deemed pointless to put into operation.

It's only when we take a step back and lead with our heads and not out hearts, we can see that a move from Roots Hall is the most viable option. Yes, a redevelopment CAN happen, but how likely is that? I said on a previous post, what buyer is really going to put that amount of money into us without a return in immediate sight?

Just looking at those rough numbers above isn't going to excite the wallet of an investor. There are fans saying, "I don't want a property developer." Who else is really going to be interested? It's the only way to make money on both sites. There's rumours that the potential buyers are people that invest other peoples money, but those people will want a return. Just buying the club and Roots Hall isn't going to give them a return, not unless they build properties. It's a strong possibility that will happen if anyone does buy us and we have to be content with that.

 

[Finney on the wing]

Have these operating costs included the rent and other payments to Ron; which would go when he goes? Even if they haven't been being paid and are just paper debts.

Also, do they include interest payments on the loans the club has been saddled with; again which would presumably (hopefully) go if we are sold and debts are settled.

Yes I'd expect they do include such costs which could potentially disappear if/when RM goes.
With some prudent cost control and revenue enhancement measures, then I reckon the club could just about break-even in the NL. In the EFL, a small profit may be achievable but it would never be anything substantial whilst at RH.

This is why FF has to be part of the plan as that's where the potential growth and profits can be achieved. May not be the ideal location but I have yet to hear of another feasible alternative site. Should SUFC get back into the EFL then it should be aiming for bigger things longer term e.g. Championship and thus a bigger stadium needs to be part of the business equation.

 

[superblue24]

I personally wouldn't be happy with a situation where the fans own the club. As been stated on here, it doesn't take an accountant to see that we operate at a loss. Fans' money would quickly disappear and losses would have to be covered. Using MB's example, 10 fan owners owning the club would have to stump up 12.5K each per month to cover the losses, or 100 fan owners would have to pay 1.25K, which is 15K per year, each. Of course, you could get a loan to see things through, but that would only be a short term solution before the club spirals into debt and eventually we have to go bankrupt.

The club is simply not postured to make a profit in the NL, the overheads are not outweighing the primary income stream, which is bums on seats. Bums will return to seats as the club moves up the leagues.

My overwhelming preference is to get new owners in who can finance the club through the next couple of years and invest money on players capable of getting us out of NL and continue to do so until the club starts to return a profit, which I think can realistically happen even from League Two level, if we hit the ground running in that division.

 

[Danshrimper]

Genuine question -

Let's say Ron stays at the helm but raises enough money to fund the season without personally getting involved (yeah, yeah, I know, but humour me please).

So there's no more missed salaries, payments or tax bills, embargos, anything. No external noise. We can just concentrate on watching the footie.

Are we ok with that?

Absolutely not. It’s Ron. I have zero faith in his assessment of what’s enough money to fund the season.

We’ll get to March and find out that ‘enough’ money to fund the season wasn’t actually enough money to fund the season and we’ll be slapped with a 10 point deduction due to late payment of wages. That could kill a play off push, or put us in danger of relegation, depending on how the season goes.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Yes I'd expect they do include such costs which could potentially disappear if/when RM goes.
With some prudent cost control and revenue enhancement measures, then I reckon the club could just about break-even in the NL. In the EFL, a small profit may be achievable but it would never be anything substantial whilst at RH.

This is why FF has to be part of the plan as that's where the potential growth and profits can be achieved. May not be the ideal location but I have yet to hear of another feasible alternative site. Should SUFC get back into the EFL then it should be aiming for bigger things longer term e.g. Championship and thus a bigger stadium needs to be part of the business equation.

Hasn’t FF been part of the plan for 20 odd years and in the meantime RH has been allowed to fall into the state it’s in now. Are we any closer to FF? Truly? Ron hands over the keys and new owners come in and the place suddenly gets built? Forgive me for being a bit sceptical.

Cash needs spending on the Hall whatever. Hopefully if there is a new owner they’ll outline their plans pretty quick.

 

[Suffolk Blue]

I personally wouldn't be happy with a situation where the fans own the club. As been stated on here, it doesn't take an accountant to see that we operate at a loss. Fans' money would quickly disappear and losses would have to be covered. Using MB's example, 10 fan owners owning the club would have to stump up 12.5K each per month to cover the losses, or 100 fan owners would have to pay 1.25K, which is 15K per year, each. Of course, you could get a loan to see things through, but that would only be a short term solution before the club spirals into debt and eventually we have to go bankrupt.

The club is simply not postured to make a profit in the NL, the overheads are not outweighing the primary income stream, which is bums on seats. Bums will return to seats as the club moves up the leagues.

My overwhelming preference is to get new owners in who can finance the club through the next couple of years and invest money on players capable of getting us out of NL and continue to do so until the club starts to return a profit, which I think can realistically happen even from League Two level, if we hit the ground running in that division.

Don't we all? But realistically, what's in it for them? Even if we managed to turn a profiit, it'd be a long, long while before their £10million plus investment investment even broke even. Not really a sound investment plan.

 

[Finney on the wing]

Hasn’t FF been part of the plan for 20 odd years and in the meantime RH has been allowed to fall into the state it’s in now. Are we any closer to FF? Truly? Ron hands over the keys and new owners come in and the place suddenly gets built? Forgive me for being a bit sceptical.

Cash needs spending on the Hall whatever. Hopefully if there is a new owner they’ll outline their plans pretty quick.

I was looking at it from a potential investor's perspective. RH could never generate serious profits without massive renovation works