Student tuition fees

[osymandus]

Unfortunately it can be very difficult to differenciate (sp?) between peaceful protesters and the trouble makers. If you don't herd them like cattle, then they will do exactly the same, funnilly enough, as unherded cattle, and spread to the four corners and then cause bigger problems...

Actually if you don;t herd them teh none violent ones run off , thus exposing the violent ones easier or making them scatter quicker thus preventing damage. Ruins great photo opportunities .

 

[osymandus]

That is a good question, why would Charles decide to drive through a protest? I smell a conspiracy.
The protest has unfortunately given the Con Dems a tool to use, they can manipulate the protests to make it look like every protester is a common thug, and that means that people are going to side with the Tories and disregard the student's viewpoint, whoever is right when you stop looking at who is right and decide who is correct based on how they are perceived in the media you know something's gone wrong.

Yes , and given the amount of police intellegence officers appearing next day in radio going "what the heck happned" I suspect someone forget to tell them as well . There's been a few other slips such as police being dragged form horse (no evidence for this at all , only one policeman fell off his horse captured by Sky ) , and teh Police fan vandalised in second demo m, was dragged there , had no plates and was an old rust bucket (i spoke to a Met riot office who was there and when asked if they could get the van back was told no but given no reason as to why they couldn't ).

Im not defending the idiots who break stuff but as pointed out already its happening on both sides , but in this day and age of instant video uplinks , the old media game doesn't work so well any more .

 

[Swiss Tony]

That is a good question, why would Charles decide to drive through a protest? I smell a conspiracy.
The protest has unfortunately given the Con Dems a tool to use, they can manipulate the protests to make it look like every protester is a common thug, and that means that people are going to side with the Tories and disregard the student's viewpoint, whoever is right when you stop looking at who is right and decide who is correct based on how they are perceived in the media you know something's gone wrong.

Yes i reckon Charlie and Cam were right up for a set up.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Today's news...

..just gets worse for the Met with a WPC not displaying her ID number.:thumbdown:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/12/student-protests-met-police-chief

 

[EastStandBlue]

IMO, by the time the protest reached Oxford Street if anything the police were too lenient. There was a designated protest route that led them towards Victoria Embankment, they deviated from that route towards Parliamentary Square with the intent to cause trouble and it flared up. I can appreciate some people may have been "following the herd", but the kettling tactic used was the correct move as soon as trouble started. After this trouble started, protestors were advised to disperse yet a collection, with the majority deciding to hide their face, moved to Oxford Street en masse to start trouble.

Now, if you've been moved on twice, are hiding your identity and are attacking riot police with concrete blocks and steel fencing, then you're certainly not there with the intention of a peaceful protest and deserve whichever punishment is given, be it a night in the cells or a truncheon to the face. You've the right to protest unharmed, but you forego that right the second you choose to attack the police.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

IMO, by the time the protest reached Oxford Street if anything the police were too lenient. There was a designated protest route that led them towards Victoria Embankment, they deviated from that route towards Parliamentary Square with the intent to cause trouble and it flared up. I can appreciate some people may have been "following the herd", but the kettling tactic used was the correct move as soon as trouble started. After this trouble started, protestors were advised to disperse yet a collection, with the majority deciding to hide their face, moved to Oxford Street en masse to start trouble.

Now, if you've been moved on twice, are hiding your identity and are attacking riot police with concrete blocks and steel fencing, then you're certainly not there with the intention of a peaceful protest and deserve whichever punishment is given, be it a night in the cells or a truncheon to the face. You've the right to protest unharmed, but you forego that right the second you choose to attack the police.

Quite right.But nobody has suggested that the student who required brain surgery after being hit by a police truncheon was anything other than unarmed(sic),nor is there any evidence to suggest that he was attacking the police.
I would also agree with you that students have the right to protest peacefully "unharmed" too. :smiles:

 

[EastStandBlue]

Quite right.But nobody has suggested that the student who required brain surgery after being hit by a police truncheon was anything other than unarmed(sic),nor is there any evidence to suggest that he was attacking the police.
I would also agree with you that students have the right to protest peacefully "unharmed" too. :smiles:

I'm not referring to that incident, though... I'm talking about the scenes later on in the evening, about 10pm, when a crowd descended upon Topshop and attacked police lines. I work not too far from Victoria Embankment and the protest there was no bother at all, just a collection of people protesting against tuition fee hikes and was largely good natured.

The incident of the student requiring brain surgery is unfortunate, but as Chadded said previously accidents will happen, especially during an operation of this scale. I read on the BBC that his mother is a lecturer and was protesting at the same time, only she followed the designated protest route whereas he deviated towards Parliamentary Square... If he'd followed the official NUS protest, it's highly likely that he wouldn't have been hurt.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

If the soap dodging commie scum want the police to play nice with them they should dress up as Muslims. Shouldn't be a difficult disguise to pull off, both groups smell something awful.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If the soap dodging commie scum want the police to play nice with them they should dress up as Muslims. Shouldn't be a difficult disguise to pull off, both groups smell something awful.

Wecome back to the zone,Rusty.You used to be a student once yourself,didn't you? :winking:

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Yes, at a top flight university after achieving excellent A Level results. I then used my education to get well paid jobs that helped me pay back my student loans. That's the only type of student who should be allowed to exist - universities should be places where people are prepared for gainful employment, not Stalinist indoctrination centres for half-wits barely qualified to dig ditches.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yes, at a top flight university after achieving excellent A Level results. I then used my education to get well paid jobs that helped me pay back my student loans. That's the only type of student who should be allowed to exist - universities should be places where people are prepared for gainful employment, not Stalinist indoctrination centres for half-wits barely qualified to dig ditches.

As it happens, I certainly didn't achieve excellent A level results,nor did pretty much anyone else IIRC, in my final year at WHSB.
I did, however, do my degree at a time (in the early/mid 70's)when only about 4/6% of my age group were actually going on to University.
I was also under the impression that the purpose of Universities was to turn out people who could think critically and independently for themselves, irrespective of what employment they might later take up, or whatever the nature of their political opinions.

 

[osymandus]

A quick on re the demos . Man in a wheel chair pulled form his chair by two police officers . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQV9P61FUwg Still no film on policeman dragged from horses .

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Not really , that's your perception of those who caused trouble. Also details which people ignore. Many people are complaining in the hike in fee's yet oddly very few mention 1) You pay nothing up front (except part time students) 2) You pay nothing back until you receive wages of greater then £21,000 increase every year in relation to inflation . 3) The cost of repayments are between £7-30 a month .

Lastly the big issues is actually the reduction in funding for Universities , oh and Tax avoidance .... which

can be paid by the closing of tax loop holes (some people might want to goggle the death of the Ten-Zero tax system in Guernsey , Jersey and Isle of man for a good laugh). Vince Cable and long term planning got to love a guy who Shell employed for 12 years to make them money ;)

Is this not the definition of every (private) sector job?

No,it's not quite simple at all.
I have a (PT) job in HE and as a Freelance EFL teacher,specialising in Business English.If I hadn't received the maximum grant

Not sure whereabouts in Spain HE is, but I think you've just scored a Luke Prosser.

in addition to my previous question, as someone who, in your own words, achieved the maximum grant, and is now working in Spain.....

what exactly has this country seen for it's investment in your future and education?

Quite.

Hold on a minute, this is the 4th protest by my reckoning and every single one has turned violent; with policemen treated in hospital, the future head of state attacked and national icons disrespected. My sympathy is wearing thin with these jerks, and if one has to eat truncheon for undoubtedly being in front row mouthing off at the authorities then **** him and his mother.

Didn't see you writing on here in sympathy when one solitary copper was cornered by hundreds of the mob when they trashed the Tory HQ. Poor sod was only trying to do his job.

Repetition:hilarious:

Soap will do the job.

:hilarious:

 

[number11]

A quick on re the demos . Man in a wheel chair pulled form his chair by two police officers . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQV9P61FUwg Still no film on policeman dragged from horses .

I see he is a self confessed 'Activist' and 'Blogger' who seems to like protesting at a variety of things (some worthwhile it must be added). Seems like may have got exactly the reaction he wanted and will no doubt be delighted with the police action and the publicity it will bring him.

 

[osymandus]

I see he is a self confessed 'Activist' and 'Blogger' who seems to like protesting at a variety of things (some worthwhile it must be added). Seems like may have got exactly the reaction he wanted and will no doubt be delighted with the police action and the publicity it will bring him.

In a darken part behind the main protesters , and being man handled out of his only means of physical support . God what a cunning mind this man has , his level of evil genius is the same as Moriarty to have manipulated the met police and fellow protesters in that way . His waste dhere Westminster here he comes !!!

Being a self confessed activist and blogger means you protest and write it up , in what way is that a justification to be dragged from a wheel chair where there was no obvious cameras ?

 

[osymandus]

can be paid by the closing of tax loop holes (some people might want to goggle the death of the Ten-Zero tax system in Guernsey , Jersey and Isle of man for a good laugh). Vince Cable and long term planning got to love a guy who Shell employed for 12 years to make them money ;)
Is this not the definition of every (private) sector job?

No, plus i have no idea what reference it has to do with my point ?
I wrote that Vince cable is known and resepcted in all sectors for his longer term stragieties for making money . I.e he is successful , not every job, in response to your reply (private or public ) is run to make a profit . IT support departments are a good example .

 

[EastStandBlue]

In a darken part behind the main protesters , and being man handled out of his only means of physical support . God what a cunning mind this man has , his level of evil genius is the same as Moriarty to have manipulated the met police and fellow protesters in that way . His waste dhere Westminster here he comes !!!

Being a self confessed activist and blogger means you protest and write it up , in what way is that a justification to be dragged from a wheel chair where there was no obvious cameras ?

I can't see how you can cast judgement either way when you don't know what he was alleged to have been doing for the police to react in such a way.

 

[number11]

In a darken part behind the main protesters , and being man handled out of his only means of physical support . God what a cunning mind this man has , his level of evil genius is the same as Moriarty to have manipulated the met police and fellow protesters in that way . His waste dhere Westminster here he comes !!!

Being a self confessed activist and blogger means you protest and write it up , in what way is that a justification to be dragged from a wheel chair where there was no obvious cameras ?

You know as much as what actually happened as I do. Merely stating 'Man pulled from wheelchair' is misleading when you consider what this individual gets up to. Im just commenting that this coming into the news has caused me and no doubt others to read his blog. From reading his blog I can see that he is an active antagoniser of the police, has disregard for private property and other members of the general public and complained that some of the protesting was not 'militant' enough. Seems to me he knew exactly what he was getitng himself into and will be rather pleased with himself that this has happened to him.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

can be paid by the closing of tax loop holes (some people might want to goggle the death of the Ten-Zero tax system in Guernsey , Jersey and Isle of man for a good laugh). Vince Cable and long term planning got to love a guy who Shell employed for 12 years to make them money ;)
Is this not the definition of every (private) sector job?

No, plus i have no idea what reference it has to do with my point ?
I wrote that Vince cable is known and resepcted in all sectors for his longer term stragieties for making money . I.e he is successful , not every job, in response to your reply (private or public ) is run to make a profit . IT support departments are a good example .

Private sector jobs exist to make a profit. People are employed because they are cost efficient and that cost efficiency increases profits (or if you are a football club, reduces losses....).

 

[OAJS]

Yes, at a top flight university after achieving excellent A Level results. I then used my education to get well paid jobs that helped me pay back my student loans. That's the only type of student who should be allowed to exist - universities should be places where people are prepared for gainful employment, not Stalinist indoctrination centres for half-wits barely qualified to dig ditches.

That's all fair enough, but would you still be paying back your student loan if it had been the approved 9 grand a year, and would you mind that?