Stadium plans passed subject to earlier payment phasing...

[londonblue]

Spot on - can't see any way this would be called in again. Only possible spanner in the works is a judicial review (only means of appeal by a 3rd party) an application for which would have to be made to the courts within 6 weeks. Can't really see this happening either to be honest.

Remember planning permission will not actually be granted until the s.106 legal agreement is signed by Ron, so he needs to be content with the cash flow implications of the deal. Hopefully he will pronounce on this soon to put us all at ease. Just the Prospects/Pizza man and other associated land deals to be sorted at Roots Hall, and the building contracts to be sorted for FF and hopefully we'll see a start on site in the autumn.

Surely Prospects and Pizza man are now Sainsbury's problem? We can build at Fossetts Farm without them. Surely then Sainsbury's should be negotiating with them, not RM? If I were Sainsbury's I'd tell him to leave it to them.

I have asked this question countless times and I am hoping someone can explain it to me please....

Q. How will the football club survive without it's Main Stand (the main money maker) for possibly 5 years or forever?

I genuinely would like to hear some well thought out discussion on this. For me this is the biggest concern we have regarding the stadium development.

Rental Income from the retail park?

Well, today, part of our hospitality is accomodate in a porta-cabin i.e. Blues Lounge. So I wouldn't rule that out! It makes a rather good match day experience too ;) Plus all Ron needs to do is put it on the back of truck, and dump it on FF. Job done...

You just know this is exaclty what is going to happen...

Who cares? That's no worse then we have now, and will at least contribute something to turnover.

Not sure I really understand the "Ron basically wants to develop a £100 million stadium & retail project with other peoples money" debate. Stobarts spent over £100 million developing the airport with "other people's money" i.e. a bank loan. It's what business does. My worry has always been his apparent inability to get a financial backer other than Sainsbury. This for me is now the key thing. Unfortunately no one seems to be lending these days.

I don't think getting a backer was an issue. I think getting a backer that didn't want a) a say in the whole project, and b) a return on their investment was an issue. Basically any investment would mean a dilution of profits, and RM doesn't want that.

 

[Cricko]

Does anyone know if there are any minutes from yesterday's council meeting? Or alternatively can anyone who went (maybe Cricko?) provide a some kind of overview as to what the main arguments were and how many voted for/against etc. Thanks in advance.

TBH it was a bore fest on a par with some of our home games this year. As far as I saw it, all the council were mainly interested in how soon they could get there hands on some money.. A few councilors made speeches about what happens to the town centre once the attraction of Sainsburys where you can park free for 2 hours if you use their shop therefore perhaps have a wander down the highstreet. That will go once the have moved to RH. Another spoke about 3.5 mill being not much these days as the original 6, would now with inflation be 7 mill so why were they accepting half of that.

There was actually NO mention about FF, a 3 sided stadium being built or what would happen if the retail never got built and they never got a penny. The overall opinion seemed to be well we have no choice but to accept RM's offer although of course they changed the payment plan but it still relies on the retail park and nothing else. RM/Sainsbury's now has to decide if they accept the new terms ( which of course they will ) then planning is automatically given the go ahead. There are a few bits to tie up in the s106 order apparently although which parts were not mentioned.The Royals may try to take the decision further through the courts as there seemed to be little regard from councilors overall as to what effect FF might have on the high street.

It lasted about 2 hours and that was about it.

 

[GregStarz]

Well, I'd certainly rather 3 sides than nothing. I'd also certainly rather 3 busy stands than 4 scattered with fans looking empty.

The thing is, we need to know where the revenue will come from and also the money to build, that's the biggest problem.

 

[leeblue]

would it be far fetched to see a hotel chain get involved in a fourth stand/hotelgiven the planned expansion of southend airport and its future seemingly very bright.

 

[Col.U. Mad]

Blackpool during its redevelopment

Port vale still yet to finish theirs

Leyton orient during redevelopment

Brighton

Also Northamton Town which is mega busy now with all the different eateries and businesses around the ground

 

[TTS]

Also Northamton Town which is mega busy now with all the different eateries and businesses around the ground

These will close down when Akinfenwa leaves .............

 

[londonblue]

TBH it was a bore fest on a par with some of our home games this year. As far as I saw it, all the council were mainly interested in how soon they could get there hands on some money.. A few councilors made speeches about what happens to the town centre once the attraction of Sainsburys where you can park free for 2 hours if you use their shop therefore perhaps have a wander down the highstreet. That will go once the have moved to RH. Another spoke about 3.5 mill being not much these days as the original 6, would now with inflation be 7 mill so why were they accepting half of that.

There was actually NO mention about FF, a 3 sided stadium being built or what would happen if the retail never got built and they never got a penny. The overall opinion seemed to be well we have no choice but to accept RM's offer although of course they changed the payment plan but it still relies on the retail park and nothing else. RM/Sainsbury's now has to decide if they accept the new terms ( which of course they will ) then planning is automatically given the go ahead. There are a few bits to tie up in the s106 order apparently although which parts were not mentioned.The Royals may try to take the decision further through the courts as there seemed to be little regard from councilors overall as to what effect FF might have on the high street.

It lasted about 2 hours and that was about it.

In fairness to the council. Everything had already been discussed and agreed. The only change was to the amount of money they get out of Southend United. There really wasn't any reason for them to focus on anything else.

 

[C C Csiders]

Does anyone know if there are any minutes from yesterday's council meeting? Or alternatively can anyone who went (maybe Cricko?) provide a some kind of overview as to what the main arguments were and how many voted for/against etc. Thanks in advance.

Minutes? The whole saga has taken so long the Council will be producing hours (if not weeks) for this meeting. Actually they have 10 working days to draft them, and a further 5 to publish.

 

[Cricko]

In fairness to the council. Everything had already been discussed and agreed. The only change was to the amount of money they get out of Southend United. There really wasn't any reason for them to focus on anything else.

Just as well I guess otherwise we would of needed to take tents and a sleeping bag :winking:

 

[Smiffy]

Blackpool during its redevelopment

Port vale still yet to finish theirs

Leyton orient during redevelopment

Brighton

Blackpool - Their main stand (West) was constructed along with the two behind the goal stands. The temporary stand you are referring to is not the main stand and has just been made bigger.

Port Vale - The main stand is constructed and operational, bar some seats. This is a re-development rather than a new ground anyway. Plus they were in Administration.

Orient - Again the main stand was constructed in tandem with the rest of the re-development.

Brighton - Their main stand was also constructed in tandem with the rest of the development.

Not the best of examples young man. So again I ask the question. Show me a club that has built a new stadium, without its main stand in tandem, or at least construction starting on it within a couple of months of the rest. You will struggle to find such a ridiculous phasing of development. By all means build 3 sides. But christ at least do an Oxford and make the empty side one of the ends, rather than the main stand.

I would actually rather have 2 stands (side stands) if it were to include the main stand and all the facilities that go with it. And build the other two (behind the goals) at a later date. I would be much more happy and feel a bit safer about our future if it was done that way.

Relying on the word of RM that he will construct it (With no firm timescale given and no security) but perhaps within 5 years is just not enough for me. 5 years?....5 frigging years?....If we survive that long without it, then we will be the luckiest club alive.

 

[Jam_Man]

would it be far fetched to see a hotel chain get involved in a fourth stand/hotelgiven the planned expansion of southend airport and its future seemingly very bright.

Well that was part of the plan Im sure.

They built a hotel next door to the airport though so does mean less reason to have one, but maybe it will inspire one of the competitors to want to open something. Problem I see is Fossetts, whilst being fairly close to the Airport isnt particularly near anything else. Not sure who would want to stay there? Then again not sure who would want to stay at Rayleigh Weir and theres a hotel there too.

 

[mrsblue]

At RH there are corp boxes ,Restaurant and bars sited in the main stand yet the club are losing 100k per month,FF without the main stand will surely make these losses seem small fry and add the probability the club will have to be up to date on rent due and maybe even begin to pay back monies owed to Ron,This venture is mad.

 

[Jam_Man]

At RH there are corp boxes ,Restaurant and bars sited in the main stand yet the club are losing 100k per month,FF without the main stand will surely make these losses seem small fry and add the probability the club will have to be up to date on rent due and maybe even begin to pay back monies owed to Ron,This venture is mad.

As I said on the other thread, why would he charge himself rent ?

As for paying back monies owed the money raised through the redevelopment of Roots Hall will surely pay those debts.

 

[Cricko]

At RH there are corp boxes ,Restaurant and bars sited in the main stand yet the club are losing 100k per month,FF without the main stand will surely make these losses seem small fry and add the probability the club will have to be up to date on rent due and maybe even begin to pay back monies owed to Ron,This venture is mad.

It is for sure going to be interesting once we are off RH and sitting in that 3 sided thing.

 

[mrsblue]

As I said on the other thread, why would he charge himself rent ?

As for paying back monies owed the money raised through the redevelopment of Roots Hall will surely pay those debts.

He will be charging the club rent as he will be the landlord,If he wants 500k per year in rent the club via ticket sales will have to cough up or face eviction or closure,The monies owed to him will I have no doubt be carried forward to FF which means any interested parties wishing to purchase the club will have to settle debts with Ron as well as buying FF from Ron so combining the two makes a very pretty penny indeed.

 

[Cricko]

This all makes you wonder what happens when RM does no longer have the backing of Sainsbury's to fall back on once we are out of RH and they have filled their commitments regarding paying for the 3 sided thing and he no longer has such a carrot to dangle.

 

[londonblue]

Well that was part of the plan Im sure.

They built a hotel next door to the airport though so does mean less reason to have one, but maybe it will inspire one of the competitors to want to open something. Problem I see is Fossetts, whilst being fairly close to the Airport isnt particularly near anything else. Not sure who would want to stay there? Then again not sure who would want to stay at Rayleigh Weir and theres a hotel there too.

I gave up trying to understand this kind of thing when I found out this hotel has the highest occupancy rates of any hotel in London.

For that reason I don't try to understand why a hotel chain would want to build whereever. All I care about is whether or not one is prepared to do so. I would imagine that one chain or another would be prepared to, so long as the price is right.

And to me that is the only issue. RM doesn't seem to have a very good track record on negotiations (Prospects, Pizza Man etc spring to mind) so this could drag on...

 

[fbm]

Blackpool - Their main stand (West) was contructed along with the two behind the goal stands. The temporary stand you are referring to is not the main stand and has just been made bigger.

Port Vale - The main stand is constructed and operational, bar some seats. This is a re-development rather than a new ground anyway. Plus they were in Administration.

Orient - Again the main stand was constructed in tandem with the rest of the re-development.

Brighton - Their main stand was also constructed in tandem with the rest of the development.

Not the best of examples young man. So again I ask the question. Show me a club that has built a new stadium, without its main stand in tandem. You will struggle to find such a ridiculous phasing of development. By all means build 3 sides. But christ at least do an Oxford and make the empty side one of the ends, rather than the main stand.

I would actually rather have 2 stands (side stands) if it were to include the main stand. And build the other two (behind the goals) at a later date. I would be much more happy and feel a bit safer about our future if it was done that way.

But the finance isn't in place for the main stand. We have no information yet as to

a) Who EXACTLY owns the main stand and who owns the other 3
b) What rents will be coming in via the main stand and the other 3
c) What facilities any of the stands will have

I'm sure gates will be unaffected as it means we'll just be sitting in 3 stands more cosily than spread across 4. If the team plays well we'll get more people in, simple. The gate receipts will be the same unless we draw a big team, which, if we do, will be unfortunate. But that doesn't happen often, does it?

I do think that everyone is worrying unnecessarily about the main stand. It's not our problem to solve guys, it's Ron's.

What we want to hear as fans is an absolute assurance that a) the stand will be built, and b) the club will be able to survive. He's obviously not going to be able to give those guarantees. If he did, then no-one would believe him and say that it was impossible to absolutely guarantee the main stand would be built and it was also not possible to guarantee the viability of a business so he therefore must be lying.

If he doesn't give those guarantees then he must be a lying, conniving fraud of a businessman only out to line his own pockets and doesn't care about the club.

What he has said is that he will do his best to ensure the main stand is built within five years but everyone sees that and goes "Oh my God we're going to be stuck with a three sided ground for ever which must have been his intention from day 1 the lying ******"

The bloke has given information in the past and no-one believed him. He has tried to keep everyone up to date and his words were denounced as bull and spin. He gave an indicative date for when he HOPED the development would start and it has been used as a stick to beat him with. Is anyone therefore surprised when he doesn't divulge much information anymore?

He either pumps money in or arranges for it to be pumped in on a monthly basis, just to keep us afloat, but rather than have any gratitude for this at all, people want to see us go into administration and possibly relegated 3 divisions just so that RonWorld doesn't go ahead and he isn't in charge... because obviously Southern League Premier is a phenomenal improvement on watching a Football League Two team that nearly got promoted last season and has just gone to Wembley...

Come on Guys, weigh it up on balance... we're better off with him than without him.

 

[Smiffy]

Surely Prospects and Pizza man are now Sainsbury's problem? We can build at Fossetts Farm without them. Surely then Sainsbury's should be negotiating with them, not RM? If I were Sainsbury's I'd tell him to leave it to them.



Rental Income from the retail park?



Who cares? That's no worse then we have now, and will at least contribute something to turnover.



I don't think getting a backer was an issue. I think getting a backer that didn't want a) a say in the whole project, and b) a return on their investment was an issue. Basically any investment would mean a dilution of profits, and RM doesn't want that.

Ahh yes that old chesnut. Can anyone point me in the direction of the evidence and clear financial statements where it details that Southend United FC will receive a percentage of any of the retail rental payments?

The retail arm is phase 2 anyway and that could take ages to build, even after we move into the 3 sided stadium. With the council payments linked to this development as well. What is the rush?

In fact what is the point of the retail arm?....does the town need it?...is it sustainable at present?

 

[Cricko]

You have lost me here Mark?

b) What rents will be coming in via the main stand and the other 3