Stadium plans passed subject to earlier payment phasing...

[fbm]

I have asked this question countless times and I am hoping someone can explain it to me please....

Q. How will the football club survive without it's Main Stand (the main money maker) for possibly 5 years or forever?

I genuinely would like to hear some well thought out discussion on this. For me this is the biggest concern we have regarding the stadium development.

How have we survived for the last 6-7 years losing on average about £100k per month?

Where did the money come from to keep us afloat?

The answer, in both cases, is Ron Martin.

He will be the owner of the 4th stand and will no doubt have to use some of his booty from the Sainsburys deal for RH to subsidise the club until the main stand has been built.

Once he does that, hopefully the club can maximise it's income and become close to being self sufficient.

In the same way that he hasn't walked away from the club up to now, despite some fierce pressure to do so, he won't do so until the job is done and maybe even ever.

So I guess the answer to your question is the same. Ron Martin.

But if it isn't and we do go belly up (I don't think we will), then that's all that would happen anyway if we didn't get the new stadium so it's Hobsons choice, isn't it?

 

[mrsblue]

You miss my point I think.

What I'm saying is that if he is so greedy and money orientated as everyone thinks, then he will want to maximise the return on the investment. That comes by getting the club as high up the leagues as possible to get a bigger slice of TV money and enabling the club to become profitable by allowing it to benefit from all of the other income streams so that it can pay rent. The sort of money he will reap from that will totally eclipse anything he gets out of RH.

No, I don't know what those income streams are either but apparently they are being put to good use by many other clubs who have new stadia. It's how smaller teams survive on lower gates when they don't have big benefactors apparently.

And to be honest, I'm not in the "Running a football club" industry so I'm not overly bothered where the money comes from as long as the club survives so I can go and support it. I'm also not particularly concerned where the money has come from that has kept us afloat for the last few years either. Every time a tax bill has been paid I haven't exactly noticed a clamour of people demanding to know where the money has come from to pay it... just many comments (probably some from me) about RM pulling a rabbit out of the hat again, borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, yada yada yada... in fact doing what most other businesses have to do on a daily basis to survive. Also in fact doing what most of us do in our lives on a daily basis by using credit cards to book a holiday or entering into finance to get a car on HP. We know it's probably not good financial management, but we justify it to ourselves anyway and worry about it later.

So many times people on this board have been proved wrong because they have judging a situation without any knowledge whatsoever of the real facts of the situation and are making assumptions based on their own views and prejudices.

To those who have actually been predicting the doom and gloom scenario, saying we'll get relegated, saying we'll go into administration and then fold, has anyone at any time over the last few years suddenly thought "You know what? I may have been wrong there and that means I might be wrong again because I don't have all the information."

Serious question.

The club cannot survive on ticket sales alone,Basic economics determine this factor and no matter what picture you paint without decent income from other streams the club has little chance.

 

[mrsblue]

How have we survived for the last 6-7 years losing on average about £100k per month?

Where did the money come from to keep us afloat?

The answer, in both cases, is Ron Martin.

He will be the owner of the 4th stand and will no doubt have to use some of his booty from the Sainsburys deal for RH to subsidise the club until the main stand has been built.

Once he does that, hopefully the club can maximise it's income and become close to being self sufficient.

In the same way that he hasn't walked away from the club up to now, despite some fierce pressure to do so, he won't do so until the job is done and maybe even ever.

So I guess the answer to your question is the same. Ron Martin.

But if it isn't and we do go belly up (I don't think we will), then that's all that would happen anyway if we didn't get the new stadium so it's Hobsons choice, isn't it?

Why has the club been losing 100k per week ? Most people would have done something to change those losses yet year upon year it's allowed to carry on,Think about it.

 

[SUFCFANS]

I have asked this question countless times and I am hoping someone can explain it to me please....

Q. How will the football club survive without it's Main Stand (the main money maker) for possibly 5 years or forever?

I genuinely would like to hear some well thought out discussion on this. For me this is the biggest concern we have regarding the stadium development.

Well, today, part of our hospitality is accomodate in a porta-cabin i.e. Blues Lounge. So I wouldn't rule that out! It makes a rather good match day experience too ;) Plus all Ron needs to do is put it on the back of truck, and dump it on FF. Job done...

You just know this is exaclty what is going to happen...

 

[Smudger]

You miss my point I think.

What I'm saying is that if he is so greedy and money orientated as everyone thinks, then he will want to maximise the return on the investment. That comes by getting the club as high up the leagues as possible to get a bigger slice of TV money and enabling the club to become profitable by allowing it to benefit from all of the other income streams so that it can pay rent. The sort of money he will reap from that will totally eclipse anything he gets out of RH.

No, I don't know what those income streams are either but apparently they are being put to good use by many other clubs who have new stadia. It's how smaller teams survive on lower gates when they don't have big benefactors apparently.

And to be honest, I'm not in the "Running a football club" industry so I'm not overly bothered where the money comes from as long as the club survives so I can go and support it. I'm also not particularly concerned where the money has come from that has kept us afloat for the last few years either. Every time a tax bill has been paid I haven't exactly noticed a clamour of people demanding to know where the money has come from to pay it... just many comments (probably some from me) about RM pulling a rabbit out of the hat again, borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, yada yada yada... in fact doing what most other businesses have to do on a daily basis to survive. Also in fact doing what most of us do in our lives on a daily basis by using credit cards to book a holiday or entering into finance to get a car on HP. We know it's probably not good financial management, but we justify it to ourselves anyway and worry about it later.

So many times people on this board have been proved wrong because they have judging a situation without any knowledge whatsoever of the real facts of the situation and are making assumptions based on their own views and prejudices.

To those who have actually been predicting the doom and gloom scenario, saying we'll get relegated, saying we'll go into administration and then fold, has anyone at any time over the last few years suddenly thought "You know what? I may have been wrong there and that means I might be wrong again because I don't have all the information."

Serious question.

You lawyers are all the same...with your fancy logic and your common sense arguments. That's witchcraft on here. :PHB:

 

[Smiffy]

How have we survived for the last 6-7 years losing on average about £100k per month?

Where did the money come from to keep us afloat?

The answer, in both cases, is Ron Martin.
Sainsbury and various loans from directors and other individuals, most of which are still outstanding (as the accounts show) and saddled on to the club. Where is Ron's personal money being invested?

He will be the owner of the 4th stand and will no doubt have to use some of his booty from the Sainsburys deal for RH to subsidise the club until the main stand has been built.

Once he does that, hopefully the club can maximise it's income and become close to being self sufficient.

In the same way that he hasn't walked away from the club up to now, despite some fierce pressure to do so, he won't do so until the job is done and maybe even ever.

So I guess the answer to your question is the same. Ron Martin.

But if it isn't and we do go belly up (I don't think we will), then that's all that would happen anyway if we didn't get the new stadium so it's Hobsons choice, isn't it?

Edited for accuracy (in bold)

Firstly, why will it be owned by Ron?

Do you think he has £25m laying around to finance the build?, will anyone loan him that amount of money?!...No chance.

You mention the Sainsbury booty to keep the club afloat, whilst we wait for this 4th side. Do you not think they have had enough?...Do you think Sainsbury will subsidise the club for possibly 5 years, after the £8m they have already shelled out, plus the £15m+ they will also shell out for the 3 sides?

Would be great if they did wouldn't it. Very nice chaps.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Not sure I really understand the "Ron basically wants to develop a £100 million stadium & retail project with other peoples money" debate. Stobarts spent over £100 million developing the airport with "other people's money" i.e. a bank loan. It's what business does. My worry has always been his apparent inability to get a financial backer other than Sainsbury. This for me is now the key thing. Unfortunately no one seems to be lending these days.

 

[Smiffy]

Not sure I really understand the "Ron basically wants to develop a £100 million stadium & retail project with other peoples money" debate. Stobarts spent over £100 million developing the airport with "other people's money" i.e. a bank loan. It's what business does. My worry has always been his apparent inability to get a financial backer other than Sainsbury. This for me is now the key thing. Unfortunately no one seems to be lending these days.

Exactly my point. Who on earth will finance this £25m mega 4th stand structure. Which I am sure we all agree without, we are finished?

 

[TJC]

At least this has hopefully created some momentum. I would now be surprised if the 3 stadium wasn't built and the club stayed in business until then - purely on the basis that Sainsbury's if the project started would be committed to complete their part.
The retail park and the flats are really nothing to do now with the club as they will or won't be built, sold on by Ron.
The key to the health of the club in the future is what Ron decides to do. Will he build the fourth side? Will he saddle the club with a rent it is never going to be able to pay? Will he wipe out or reduce or even increase our current debt of around £10 million? Will he entertain a new owner/owners at a realistic price who will invest in the club's future?
Only Ron knows the answers to the above, but my gut feel is that the future is very uncertain and we could have years of uncertainty while Ron still owns the club.

Thats a good point. Our existence is assured until either it all gets pulled or we move to the new stadium. Thats when the battle for survival really starts. No more Sainsburys to bank roll us.

 

[united we stand]

Exactly my point. Who on earth will finance this £25m mega 4th stand structure. Which I am sure we all agree without, we are finished?

This has been going on for so long than most of us can't remember the figures , so do we actually know or have an informed opinion or is it a total guess on how the fiannces will work . i.e Once We sell Roots Hall to Sainsbury's and we build the 3 sided stadium etc how much does Ron have left? I have heard the figure of '£8 milion being paid to us so far , is that a fact or an assumption ? But again the figure is somewhat meaningless without knowing all of the otehr figures involved.
Who is building the supermarket and the flats? From memory I thought Ron was doing that- which would I assume be more profit for him -However I accept that my memory may be palying tricks on me on this point.

 

[chapperzUK]

Exactly my point. Who on earth will finance this £25m mega 4th stand structure. Which I am sure we all agree without, we are finished?

That is the way I see it but I know very little about the ins and outs of the new stadium.

Maybe it is me being pessimistic or a realist, but even IF work starts and the 3 sides are built, I still doubt anyone would help fund the 4th stand and to me that would just mean that year-on-year we will be dying a new slow death.

I think the naming of the stadium has caused this from the start, the initials of Fossetts Farm Stadium are FFS and how many times have we said that when we've heard news about it!

 

[Fish]

Why has the club been losing 100k per week ? Most people would have done something to change those losses yet year upon year it's allowed to carry on,Think about it.

The figure is not £100k per week, but was £100k per month. During the Tara Brady era that figure dropped to £60k per month according to other threads on here and the company accounts.

Virtually all football clubs spend more money than they have coming in, simply to keep up with the Jones's. It's not a case of sitting back and 'allowing' losses to mount up, it's about balancing deficit you're willing to run against the resources you think you need to compete at whatever level you're playing.

 

[Batman]

Why are we all so sure that without the fourth side we are finished? What balance sheet accounts have been seen that shows this.

 

[mrsblue]

The figure is not £100k per week, but was £100k per month. During the Tara Brady era that figure dropped to £60k per month according to other threads on here and the company accounts.

Virtually all football clubs spend more money than they have coming in, simply to keep up with the Jones's. It's not a case of sitting back and 'allowing' losses to mount up, it's about balancing deficit you're willing to run against the resources you think you need to compete at whatever level you're playing.

Typo error on my part.

May I suggest that running the club on revenue coming in would be far more prudent that losing money hand over fist,furthermore one has to question why the losses continue yeah I know football clubs work in strange ways.

Maybe it's the laundry?

 

[OldBlueLady]

Exactly my point. Who on earth will finance this £25m mega 4th stand structure. Which I am sure we all agree without, we are finished?

I wouldn't mind betting that there is something linked with the airport expansion plans already in the pipeline.

 

[Smiffy]

Why are we all so sure that without the fourth side we are finished? What balance sheet accounts have been seen that shows this.

If you can name me any pro club that can survive or at least move forward without it's main stand, exec boxes, corporate facilities etc etc, then please show me.

Without it we rely solely on ticket income and any trade from food/drink outlets.

Ron stated clearly we needed extra income streams and non-matchday income to survive and create that "upward spiral" for our club. I agree. So where is that going to come from?

A few Portakabins on a mud bank, serving up Happy Meals from the McDonalds down the road won't cut it, will it?

 

[Smiffy]

I wouldn't mind betting that there is something linked with the airport expansion plans already in the pipeline.

If that is the case then great, but we as fans deserve to hear about it.

 

[TrueBlue]

If you can name me any pro club that can survive or at least move forward without it's main stand, exec boxes, corporate facilities etc etc, then please show me.

Without it we rely solely on ticket income and any trade from food/drink outlets.

Ron stated clearly we needed extra income streams and non-matchday income to survive and create that "upward spiral" for our club. I agree. So where is that going to come from?

A few Portakabins on a mud bank, serving up Happy Meals from the McDonalds down the road won't cut it, will it?

Blackpool during its redevelopment

Port vale still yet to finish theirs

Leyton orient during redevelopment

Brighton

 

[fbm]

Edited for accuracy (in bold)

Firstly, why will it be owned by Ron?

Do you think he has £25m laying around to finance the build?, will anyone loan him that amount of money?!...No chance.

You mention the Sainsbury booty to keep the club afloat, whilst we wait for this 4th side. Do you not think they have had enough?...Do you think Sainsbury will subsidise the club for possibly 5 years, after the £8m they have already shelled out, plus the £15m+ they will also shell out for the 3 sides?

Would be great if they did wouldn't it. Very nice chaps.

Now on the one hand (not sure about you Smiffy), we have a scenario being touted about that Ron is going to make so much from the sale of RH he will just walk away and leave us to rot.

Yet according to you it's all Sainsburys money?

It's got to be one or the other.

It may have been money that Sainsburys advanced... it certainly was money that RM has organised... but after RH sale goes through I would think that Ron will, one way or t'other, come out of it with some dosh, otherwise there's no point in doing it all, is there?

And there has to be some tasty business plan that has obviously been seen as viable for so many people to advance the money in the first place.

So he'll either have to walk away at that point (having used a chunk of his share of the loot to repay all the loans/deals he has already had to arrange to keep us alive up to now) and settle for his share to be his life's fund, because if he pulls that sort of stunt his reputation will be on the floor, he will be hated and reviled across the entire football world (not just SUFC fans), he won't receive anywhere near as much rent as he should and the whole place will become a white elephant, he'll never develop anything ever again because he didn't see this one through properly and I doubt he will come out with enough to make it all work will include not building the 4th stand, leaving the club with no income so it will almost certainly fold (don't forget there are others involved in all of this so he may not even be allowed to do this legally).

Or, he can get stand 4 built asap (which I'm sure he will be trying to do, but with no guarantees) so he doesn't have to keep the whole thing bubbling for ever and reap the rich rewards, which will be his legacy.

I personally think he'll choose option 2. But then I am a very optimistic and trusting person. I can understand the cynicism, but don't understand the judgments when we clearly know very little.

 

[Fairport]

It seems that our future could depend on the health or otherwise of the hotel industry. Travelodge for example are struggling and losing money. The only chance of some chain opening a hotel at Fossetts Farm would seem to be the expansion of business at Southend Airport. Also the proposed deep water terminal in the Stanford le Hope/Corringham area which will attract business visitors. Unfortunately though most of that hotel business may go to Basildon which is nearer.