So when will RM give us all an update on FF?

[ooh-andy-ansah]

You are clearly unaware that the biggest thieves in business are the biggest businesses. Success is more often than not gained by treacherous behaviour and the enlisting of good lawyers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...ntroversial-tax-avoidance-scheme-9102947.html

I am more than aware of corporate greed and I manage a substantial portfolio of shares which involves doing extensive research and DD, attending AGM's, listening to a huge amount of BS, please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that Sainsbury's run their business in the same manner as RM !!!!!!!

 

[onceknownasrab]

Should there be any reports that Sainsbury have caused any delay I am sure people will form different opinions and shift the blame.

Until then just posting details about other stores is no evidence they have caused an issue with ours.

And the fact that FF has yet to start is not evidence that it is all RM's fault. Without all the facts what is the point of blame and finger wagging anyway? As supporters we would do better supporting the clubs aims and then we can wring our hands if it all goes Pete Tong.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

No I don't want it to be Sainsburys fault. What I am pointing out is that many of the posters have an anti-RM agenda and are certain it is all his fault but do not have the facts to support their level of angst.

All I have tried to show is that there can be other factors and unless we know one way or another then hate campaigns are pointless and possibly misdirected.

Agenda ? Grow up man. The facts are there for all to see, the county court judgements, the winding up petitions, do I need to go on ?

 

[onceknownasrab]

I am more than aware of corporate greed and I manage a substantial portfolio of shares which involves doing extensive research and DD, attending AGM's, listening to a huge amount of BS, please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that Sainsbury's run their business in the same manner as RM !!!!!!!

And don't insult my intelligence by inferring they keep themselves whiter than white. The huge amount of BS you say you listen to goes to show that RM IS just like many other businessman. They say what they need to in order to progress. I hope you are then vilifying all those on your portfolio.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Agenda ? Grow up man. The facts are there for all to see, the county court judgements, the winding up petitions, do I need to go on ?

Grow up? It is your level of immaturity that astounds. CCJ's and winding up petitions? Perhaps you would like to calculate how many of them are dished out and how many upstanding companies have received them?

 

[Jam_Man]

And the fact that FF has yet to start is not evidence that it is all RM's fault. Without all the facts what is the point of blame and finger wagging anyway? As supporters we would do better supporting the clubs aims and then we can wring our hands if it all goes Pete Tong.

All we can do is base judgements on what we know.

We undertook a project to build a stadium that we have not been able to finance. Sainsbury have gone as far as financing 75% of it.

You can blame the credit crunch or the council, or search the internet for possible reasons why Sainsbury might be at fault but Ron Martin is accountable, it's his project. The club has also had 4 years of financial problems outside the project.

I'm not even sure what us "supporting the clubs aims" means...

 

[onceknownasrab]

All we can do is base judgements on what we know.

We undertook a project to build a stadium that we have not been able to finance. Sainsbury have gone as far as financing 75% of it.

You can blame the credit crunch or the council, or search the internet for possible reasons why Sainsbury might be at fault but Ron Martin is accountable, it's his project. The club has also had 4 years of financial problems outside the project.

I'm not even sure what us "supporting the clubs aims" means...

Thats ok. You have to go with what you feel is right. Personally I know so far RM has looked no more than an overstretched and under pressure businessman that is trying to make it. I have known many at all levels like it and it does not make them awful people. Its business. RM's business has the possibility of giving the club the advantages I want it to have. Therefore I hope he succeeds and best of luck to him.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

Thats ok. You have to go with what you feel is right. Personally I know so far RM has looked no more than an overstretched and under pressure businessman that is trying to make it. I have known many at all levels like it and it does not make them awful people. Its business. RM's business has the possibility of giving the club the advantages I want it to have. Therefore I hope he succeeds and best of luck to him.

List the advantages then because even RM hasn't explained how the new stadium will benefit the club, in fact quite the opposite, again a veil of secrecy exists.

Looking forward to you telling us all how the saviour's plan will save the club and give it these "advantages".

 

[Smiffy]

No I don't want it to be Sainsburys fault. What I am pointing out is that many of the posters have an anti-RM agenda and are certain it is all his fault but do not have the facts to support their level of angst.

All I have tried to show is that there can be other factors and unless we know one way or another then hate campaigns are pointless and possibly misdirected.

No "Anti-RM" agenda here as such.

I personally just have no faith in him to deliver the completed stadium project as agreed. I think those on here with a similar train of thought have seen enough (or not as the case may be) to warrant such concerns?

I would feel exactly the same if the Sultan of Brunei had taken 10 years to get nowhere with the plans and drag us through tortuous court cases and financial debacles. Not to mention spinning us many lines in public over the years, to silence the "dissenters"...those who dare to question him and show no confidence.

I just dont think he is the right man for the job, or our club anymore. I feel change is needed to breathe new life and optimism into our club. We have stagnated. That's it, no real agenda. Just my honest thoughts as a fan.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

And don't insult my intelligence by inferring they keep themselves whiter than white. The huge amount of BS you say you listen to goes to show that RM IS just like many other businessman. They say what they need to in order to progress. I hope you are then vilifying all those on your portfolio.

I don't see Sainsbury in court repeatedly with winding up petitions hanging over them, what I do see is a profitable well run business, I challenge you to demonstrate a company owned by RM that compares.

 

[onceknownasrab]

I don't see Sainsbury in court repeatedly with winding up petitions hanging over them, what I do see is a profitable well run business, I challenge you to demonstrate a company owned by RM that compares.

I don't need to show RM is scrupulous. I am saying that he is far from alone in the world of business when it comes to 'means justify the ends'. Vilifying him is just naivety. The depth of ideological dilemmas aired on this site is incredible.

Also you did not make mention of Sainsburys and tax schemes. The links I provided. Moral behaviour may not be a legal necessity in business but it shows even Sainsburys are capable of behaviour many of us consider wrong.

 

[londonblue]

I didn't say whether or not a £1 is a realistic offer. I merely pointed out that the overall asset value of the club as it is, is about -£9m.

IF everything can be agreed with Prospects, businesses, shops and the Council. Then that changes things. I guess then it will be down to any potential new owner to decide if they can sort all that out, clear the debts and still make a tidy profit. If so, then perhaps the offer could be quite significant.

But, I think the problem we have is Ron cannot give up his slice of the pie. Meaning we are stuck with him, unless someone comes in with a stupid offer which will enable him to walk debt free and with a sizeable retirement fund. That will be the sticking point, as I think the figure Ron will want will be a million miles apart from any offer he may receive.

It's a crap situation. But I think Ron must be close to considering listening to offers. There clearly is real problems financially with this project and I would urge him to think about giving up a slice, to get things moving.

Ok, so why do you laugh when people say no-one would buy the club? They won't get it for a pound, and according to you, RM will want a huge amount for it.

For clarity, I actually think there may be a very small number of people willing to look at FF as a potential investment, but they would have to be serious retail property developers who have the cash to buy RM out and fund the fourth side of the stadium before they are likely to see any return. People like that are few and far between, and most of those will probably conclude it isn't worth the hassle.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

I don't need to show RM is scrupulous. I am saying that he is far from alone in the world of business when it comes to 'means justify the ends'. Vilifying him is just naivety. The depth of ideological dilemmas aired on this site is incredible.

Also you did not make mention of Sainsburys and tax schemes. The links I provided. Moral behaviour may not be a legal necessity in business but it shows even Sainsburys are capable of behaviour many of us consider wrong.

More like you can't because it's impossible to do !!!!

You may disapprove of schemes that reduce tax liability but the reality is that Sainsbury's run their business in a way that is ethically acceptable to the majority of people, if they didn't then they would be boycotted and wouldn't exist.

I bet RM would love to be in a position where his web of loss making companies actually incurred a tax liability !!!!

 

[Jam_Man]

Thats ok. You have to go with what you feel is right. Personally I know so far RM has looked no more than an overstretched and under pressure businessman that is trying to make it. I have known many at all levels like it and it does not make them awful people. Its business. RM's business has the possibility of giving the club the advantages I want it to have. Therefore I hope he succeeds and best of luck to him.

Thats exactly what I think as well.

I used to be a big supporter of Ron, I thought he was doing this for the money yet had the clubs interest at heart with his plans, and I still do.

That said he has made a pigs ear of it and dragged us along with him creating massive debts.

If I were to see anything to suggest the the council or Sainsbury had caused problems I would be blaming them, but for now all I see is that Ron bit off more than he could chew.

 

[philtalkin]

No news is good news

 

[onceknownasrab]

More like you can't because it's impossible to do !!!!

You may disapprove of schemes that reduce tax liability but the reality is that Sainsbury's run their business in a way that is ethically acceptable to the majority of people, if they didn't then they would be boycotted and wouldn't exist.

I bet RM would love to be in a position where his web of loss making companies actually incurred a tax liability !!!!

I dispute your take that it is acceptable to the majority of people. I will also proffer that sainsburys time in the press over their tax decisions is still to come.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

I dispute your take that it is acceptable to the majority of people. I will also proffer that sainsburys time in the press over their tax decisions is still to come.

Dispute as much as you like, people spend money in their stores out of choice, fact...... but you would argue black is white

 

[onceknownasrab]

Dispute as much as you like, people spend money in their stores out of choice, fact...... but you would argue black is white

People have low levels of principle. Many disapproved of Starbucks but still bought their coffee. Continuing to use the store is not a statement of approval but merely hypocrisy.

 

[Jam_Man]

I dont even know what the argument is anymore.

 

[onceknownasrab]

I dont even know what the argument is anymore.

Is Drewee better or worse than Donut?