SMS Bailey, Clarke and Francis on the list

[southendutd1]

As I said though, he probably did offer them much higher wages, more than the wage budget would usually allow. I'd be surprised if he didn't. But a substantially bigger wage packet, higher than the wage budget should allow and higher than the vast majority of the players at the club, is STILL not enough for them, and we can't go any higher. I reckon that Clarkie's and Bailey's new wage packets would have put them on at least 2.5k....much more than that is too much for us.

true, but in order to push on and at todays rate of how money goes we need to paymore than that.. and replacements for them are going to be the same. aswell as the replacements for all the other players are gunna be on higher wages than those released.

Its just a point, if/when we get our new stadium we need good gates in the championship! not in league 1 and to stay in there we need our best players.

 

[ElstreeBlue]

We're all speculating, but what are the real facts?

This is what we don't know:
1 What were the players offered?
2 How big their increases were?
3 How straight the club had been with the players as a take it or you're off offer (or whether this is a shock to the players too)?
4 What is the club's total budget?
5 Whether the agents told them with certainty that they could get more elsewhere?
6 Whether the agents were right or stirring up to get the players more money (and feed themselves more)?
7 Whether this is simply a negotiating tactic but the board/management really want the players to stay?

This is what we do know:
1 Won't keep good team spirit at the club.
2 Won't entice players to come here.
3 But - most importantly - after we saw how Whelan's crazy wage structure (or lack of it) when we paid over the odds in what's now the Championship nearly sent us down and down and nearly down again and out of business, we must NOT pay wages more than we can afford. If we need to get relegated next season because we would not be held to ransom and because we needed to ensure we had a club to support in 5 years' time, I say so be it and well done for taking the bull by the horns.

I say the biggest sin in all of this is how Gower's contract had been allowed to run down. He should have either been on a longer contract or sold. I think (more speculation) that the club's finally woken up to the fact that we need to cash in if the players will be free to leave in 1/2 years.

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

The majority of teams that will be in our division next season will have fairly settled squads and won't be looking to change too much.

Most of these teams in L1 will not be able to afford what we are probably asking for these players.

They've proved they aren't good enough to play in The Championship as we got relegated last year. So not many Championship teams will be interested.

Bailey is the only one for me who can play in the Championship but i think it's madness he's on the transfer list with 2 years to run, if he had one year left or his contract was due to run out i could understand it.

Not many teams put their player of the season and top goalscorer on the transfer list.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Maybe it's the Gower situation that's partly behind Martin taking this stance.

 

[Andyhsufc]

Its a very bold decision by Uncle Ron but I think he knows what game he is playing. Dont be surprised if all three players sign new contracts by the start of the season

 

[sufcintheprem]

I'm sorry but some themes here have really surprised me and seem grossly unrealistic.

We'll take £500k
I'm sorry but even Stevie wonder could see that Bailey was our best player last season and that's why he won player of the year with a landslide vote. Just because he's asked for more money, let's not pretend he's a crap player who we would happily take any average money for (Foran).

If the players are good enough for the Championship then why weren't we promoted
This argument annoys me a lot. We were two good games off of promotion and, what, six points off of automatic? Bailey was the best player in a team that almost got promoted which, I would say, pretty much makes him Championship standard. If everyone else had played at his level, we'd have won the league.

You would expect some loyalty
Why would you expect loyalty from any of them? Team spirit? Seems unlikely when 5 of their team mates have been released. Local pride? None of them are local. Southend giving them a chance? I doubt they were especially short of offers when we signed each of them. Ambition in football should be thought of as an asset. Loyal players will get Kudos from fans but ambitious players will make it in the game.

They earn a large amount / they can only work for the period of their footballing career
Neither of these two wash with me. They earn a large amount because they are not just good at football but amongst the best thousand or so in the country at their job which happens to be in an industry where the best players can attract huge revenues to the clubs. It's likely that we'll never be able to appreciate this sort of bargaining position but the few friends of mine who have been considered too highly skilled to let go have been paid extremely well. The second bit also doesn't make much sense to me. Once they're done playing football, they can get jobs in football, they could invest some of their earnings, they can find a new career like everyone else - they can earn money. It's not like you get to being a 34 year old footballer and someone chops off your limbs.

Apologies if any of that sounds harsh and I realise that emotions are running high but there are too many comments on here which just seemed way off the mark.

 

[EastStandBlue]

My view on things? F*ck them...

I completely back RM on this one, if the offers are substantial and they're still being rejected then the club shouldn't pay over the odds for players that are simply "good" League One players.

We've seen it with Eastwood, players who aren't committed and don't want to be here are a waste of space, and with the money we bring in we can place emphasis on the positions that need a complete overhaul. i.e. The Defence.

 

[fredheim_holm]

16 pages, you can tell this is madness.

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

My view on things? F*ck them...

I completely back RM on this one, if the offers are substantial and they're still being rejected then the club shouldn't pay over the odds for players that are simply "good" League One players.

We've seen it with Eastwood, players who aren't committed and don't want to be here are a waste of space, and with the money we bring in we can place emphasis on the positions that need a complete overhaul. i.e. The Defence.

I do agree with RM partly, he is a very clever man and usually comes out on top, i'm sure he still wants these players to still be here next season, but wants them to relise that it was a good offer and they probably wont find a better one anywere else.... within reason.

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

If it's the players wanting more money then i'm glad we didn't go up because they'd of been wanting even more money.

 

[watchtheballboys]

Feeling Blue.....

Just got in from work and initial reaction was what the hell is going on!

Read a few of the postings and a lot of sense out there in that the club cannot be held to ransom and yes Ron Martin has acted as most companies would if confronted by unhappy staff making excessive demands so why should football be any different!

Well we idolise these players and most of us would give anything to pull on a blue shirt. I believe the emotional response at the end of the game at Doncaster from Peter Clarke was sincere and he did go up in my estimation because of it.

Clarkey on his day is a good player, prone to silly mistakes but has a never say die mentality which most admire. His distribution is questionable and he normally wins the 'player with most balls out of the ground' award every week! (that's the football not his balls!)

Bailey is and has been exceptional this last season and would be a big miss for next year.

Francis came good at the end of the season and if he wants a big move then needs
a full season of consistency. He was not good early on!

I don't want to see them go and what worries me is the impression it will give to someone like Mulgrew and others when attempting to sign quality players.

Players can be replaced but my biggest worry is that although Steve T has done a good job for Southend he has been very hit and miss with signings. For every good one there has been a poor one.

If he can get the signings right it may not be the end of the world after all!

 

[watchtheballboys]

Feeling Blue.....

Just got in from work and initial reaction was what the hell is going on!

Read a few of the postings and a lot of sense out there in that the club cannot be held to ransom and yes Ron Martin has acted as most companies would if confronted by unhappy staff making excessive demands so why should football be any different!

Well we idolise these players and most of us would give anything to pull on a blue shirt. I believe the emotional response at the end of the game at Doncaster from Peter Clarke was sincere and he did go up in my estimation because of it.

Clarkey on his day is a good player, prone to silly mistakes but has a never say die mentality which most admire. His distribution is questionable and he normally wins the 'player with most balls out of the ground' award every week! (that's the football not his balls!)

Bailey is and has been exceptional this last season and would be a big miss for next year.

Francis came good at the end of the season and if he wants a big move then needs
a full season of consistency. He was not good early on!

I don't want to see them go and what worries me is the impression it will give to someone like Mulgrew and others when attempting to sign quality players.

Players can be replaced but my biggest worry is that although Steve T has done a good job for Southend he has been very hit and miss with signings. For every good one there has been a poor one.

If he can get the signings right it may not be the end of the world after all!

 

[shrimpled]

It's a business. Why should we pay players 150k+ a year if they are not bringing that much into the club? I back Ron 100% but i hope that Bailey and Francis are still here next season.

 

[Beefy]

Without wanting to patronise people :) I'm very impressed with the pragmatism and belief of the Shrimperzone community. When I saw this thread was 16 pages long I presumed it would be full of cries of 'Sack the Board' and demands to have season ticket money refunded.

A very interesting day today. I was surprised we'd reject £15k for Charlie Mac at the start of the day because I'd have thought that we'd take anything we could get for him. And then the main event.... this afternoon's SMS from the Club.

Very interesting.... For me, Clarke and Francis are good players but in the two years that they have been defenders at this Club we must have conceeded around 150 goals. Clarke is too similar to Barrett and if it boils down to a choice between the two I'd pick Barrett every day of the week (especially saturday). Francis has been quality since Christmas but was pretty poor for the first 18 months he was here. IF it's true that we've offered both improved contracts to stay then I don't think it's unreasonable to look elsewhere if they've exercised their right to turn us down. They were signed as Championship defenders. They are now League One defenders. In my eyes they should both be taking a paycut, really.

Bailey is a difficult issue because he's possibly our best player, but considering how he acted at Barnet when we were after him he was always unlikely to be here for long. As someone else said, whilst you can't doubt his commitment on the pitch it appears that off of the pitch he's only interested in Nicky Bailey and Nicky Bailey's career. Fair play, that's his right, but it's also our right as a Club to have players who want to play for the shirt.

Now the really interesting stuff is where is Steve Tilson in all of this? We've heard from Ron Martin but surely we should be hearing from the manager.

Frankly, staying up next season would be an achievement now. To sign and bed in a whole new team is a massive ask of any manager and my expectations are pretty low now. But considering that last time we started to tie down under-achieving players to long contracts we almost went out of business, in a way I'm happier for us to be taking this approach now rather than caving in to unrealistic wage demands.

it's going to be a long summer.

 

[loz]

IF it's true that we've offered both improved contracts to stay then I don't think it's unreasonable to look elsewhere if they've exercised their right to turn us down. They were signed as Championship defenders. They are now League One defenders. In my eyes they should both be taking a paycut, really.

just as an aside, they may well have taken a paycut anyway at the beginning of last season. I'd assume RM would have written relegation-based paycuts into the contracts, being the smart business cookie that he is.

 

[Kenny]

Frankly, staying up next season would be an achievement now. To sign and bed in a whole new team is a massive ask of any manager and my expectations are pretty low now. But considering that last time we started to tie down under-achieving players to long contracts we almost went out of business, in a way I'm happier for us to be taking this approach now rather than caving in to unrealistic wage demands.

it's going to be a long summer.

Orient last season springs to mind, they did major major surgery last summer yet still managed to gel really quickly. Despite their slump in the latter half of the season they still improved on the previous season where they just about stayed up.

 

[ElstreeBlue]

Now the really interesting stuff is where is Steve Tilson in all of this? We've heard from Ron Martin but surely we should be hearing from the manager.

Frankly, staying up next season would be an achievement now. To sign and bed in a whole new team is a massive ask of any manager and my expectations are pretty low now. But considering that last time we started to tie down under-achieving players to long contracts we almost went out of business, in a way I'm happier for us to be taking this approach now rather than caving in to unrealistic wage demands.

it's going to be a long summer.

Steve Tilson - presumably he's the good guy in the good guy-bad guy approach to all of this. He'll pick up the pieces and be on side with the players if they stay. Martin is doing the tough negotiation.

Agreed - massive test for Tilson. He has certainly earned his credits in the bank to be given the benefit of the doubt if we struggle next season after this. But how long before people forget what he's had to deal with and call for his head if we're in the bottom 4 after the first 5 games again?

It's going to be a long summer? You bet - and it's Tilly I feel sorry for. Whilst the players have an easy life getting paid well for a part-time job, Tilly goes back to his desk after training, has to deal with the media (which he doesn't seem to particularly enjoy) and has to travel around the country watching players, and not to mention get involved with discussions with the board about things like balancing the books when he'd probably really love to sign Ronaldinho. I also wonder how he always seems to be busy between seasons - either doing a training course or trying his best for us for next year with contacting players. Does he ever get the chance to go away and have a rest? This will mean he'll be kept even busier than usual this summer. I hope he doesn't get burnt out - remember Paul Jewell at Wigan - just had to leave and have a break from football.

 

[Beefy]

just as an aside, they may well have taken a paycut anyway at the beginning of last season. I'd assume RM would have written relegation-based paycuts into the contracts, being the smart business cookie that he is.

Possibly. Although I'm sure that their agents are smart cookies too and may well have insisted that no such clause was in the contract. None of us know.

 

[A Century United]

I think I'd feel a lot more comfortable about this if the quotes about the situation had come from Tilly rather than Ron. Of course, contract negotiations fall into the remit of the chairman but the understanding of what players are about, how they are best motivated and handled must come from the management.

I am concerned that Ron is using bullying, business tactics in a situation that needs much more delicate handling and man-management. He's undoubtedly called the agents' (and possibly players') bluff on this but I really hope it doesn't back-fire on us.

I totally endorse this point of view. Well said

On the contrary, I think this is exactly the right way to handle it, if handled it must be - Ron has to take the hard man role PRECISELY because Tilly has to do the day to day handling of the players. This way if the players do change their minds, it is the distant figure of RM that they will feel the resentment towards, and Tilly is seen to have clean hands in all this.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

just as an aside, they may well have taken a paycut anyway at the beginning of last season. I'd assume RM would have written relegation-based paycuts into the contracts, being the smart business cookie that he is.

Dunno how Bailey could have taken a pay cut..He only signed at the start of last season???