Should corporal punishishment return?

[Hotman]

i had a teacher Mr wade who threw chairs across the class room, does that count as corporal punishment?

 

[graysblue]

my son is aged 22 and i have in the past clumped him approx 3 or 4 times,my daughter is 19 ansd i have never clumped her must admit came very close.

anyway my kids dont even chuck litter on the floor,true my boy gets excited at the hall at the away fans ,but both are well adjusted both work and both have never been involved with the police and both certainly dont touch drugs.

as their father i think i did okayish in teaching them right from wrong.

 

[steveo]

i had a teacher Mr wade who threw chairs across the class room, does that count as corporal punishment?

Did they hit anyone?

 

[canveyshrimper]

my son is aged 22 and i have in the past clumped him approx 3 or 4 times,my daughter is 19 ansd i have never clumped her must admit came very close.

anyway my kids dont even chuck litter on the floor,true my boy gets excited at the hall at the away fans ,but both are well adjusted both work and both have never been involved with the police and both certainly dont touch drugs.

as their father i think i did okayish in teaching them right from wrong.

I'm not doubting you for one moment, but how can you be sure that neither have done drugs? Many of my peers (me included) were known to smoke a variety of exotic substances, and I am pretty damn sure that my parents didn't know a thing, which was probably a good thing as my old man may have knocked seven shades of ****e out of me.

 

[Vange Shrimper]

Regarding parenting, there are some right little buggers at my place, who misbehave and try and get away with pretty much anything. When phoning the parents to mention about their behaviour, they tend to have none of it, claiming that their children are angels and wouldnt do anything like it and so moan at us instead saying that we are making it up and other things.

Some kids do have a Jekyll and Hyde side to them. Be angels at home and get what they want, but as soon as they get outside the house, they turn and become the complete opposite as they know that whatever happens outside the house, the parents wont believe anyone apart from their children and hence they get away with it.

Some cases with behaviour inside the lessons, some kids try to push the teachers to see how far they go before they 'break'. There was one English teacher who has now left, and he done his nut at every opportunity - ultimately, the kids used to wind him up something rotten and misbehave big time, because they love to see a reaction out of him. Also, being really firm but fair with the kids from the start is a good way to be, so that the students then know what their limits are. But with the extremely misbehavied students, knowing what would happen to them when they go too far could also work, but then the other side to it would be that they'll try their luck and try to push it because they might think 'Oh, they are just trying to scare us, it wont actually happen'.

I might have contradicted myself with my previous post on this issue, but in truth, the cane could work but only in certain circumstances. Personally though, we'll never get corporal punishment back.

 

[graysblue]

I'm not doubting you for one moment, but how can you be sure that neither have done drugs? Many of my peers (me included) were known to smoke a variety of exotic substances, and I am pretty damn sure that my parents didn't know a thing, which was probably a good thing as my old man may have knocked seven shades of ****e out of me.

education mate,i drummed it into them talking from personal experience,my son did try smoking weed which made him feel sick.

in addition they dont tell lies ,or if they do they are damn good.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Regarding parenting, there are some right little buggers at my place, who misbehave and try and get away with pretty much anything. When phoning the parents to mention about their behaviour, they tend to have none of it, claiming that their children are angels and wouldnt do anything like it and so moan at us instead saying that we are making it up and other things.

Some kids do have a Jekyll and Hyde side to them. Be angels at home and get what they want, but as soon as they get outside the house, they turn and become the complete opposite as they know that whatever happens outside the house, the parents wont believe anyone apart from their children and hence they get away with it.

Some cases with behaviour inside the lessons, some kids try to push the teachers to see how far they go before they 'break'. There was one English teacher who has now left, and he done his nut at every opportunity - ultimately, the kids used to wind him up something rotten and misbehave big time, because they love to see a reaction out of him. Also, being really firm but fair with the kids from the start is a good way to be, so that the students then know what their limits are. But with the extremely misbehavied students, knowing what would happen to them when they go too far could also work, but then the other side to it would be that they'll try their luck and try to push it because they might think 'Oh, they are just trying to scare us, it wont actually happen'.

I might have contradicted myself with my previous post on this issue, but in truth, the cane could work but only in certain circumstances. Personally though, we'll never get corporal punishment back.

Now I know why you looked so frazzled when I saw you this morning Hils.

 

[Vange Shrimper]

Now I know why you looked so frazzled when I saw you this morning Hils.

I look like that every weekday morning!

 

[canveyshrimper]

education mate,i drummed it into them talking from personal experience,my son did try smoking weed which made him feel sick.

in addition they dont tell lies ,or if they do they are damn good.

Fair play, I would say most parents try that but it doesn't stop kids experimenting, whether it be booze, sex, ciggies, drugs or whatever the latest fad maybe.

 

[Pubey]

i would like to think that i can bring up my children without ever resorting to smacking them... or at least hope it was the last resort but still only done when i was in control. however i'm completely against it being done by anyone other than the childs parent. to bring it back into schools is ludicrous in my opinion, i thought we had move on since then?!!

 

[canveyshrimper]

I look like that every weekday morning!

:O:D Well it was bloody early.

 

[Einstein]

Having only finished school last year, imo there is only one reason for poor discipline standards; teachers that can't "teach" (and by that i mean not subject knowledge but actually ability to communicate to and control a class of 25 teenagers)

Obviously, some teachers are better than others. However, you have just kindly highlighted exactly the issue which I believe has plagued teachers for the last 10-20 years. The fact that the students are "know it alls".

I had a German teacher at school who I always thought of as a 'terrible teacher'. One thing I learnt as I got older was actually that she was not really a 'terrible teacher', she just did not train to look after a bunch of teenagers who acted more like nursery school children.

If there had been a punishment in place, then respect would have been there. And everyone would have come away knowing a hell of a lot more. However, the troublemakers in the class did not really care as they were fully aware there wasn't any sort of punishment in place for them acting like little *****. Had she been able to send the little buggers to the Headteacher's office to get the cane, I'm damn sure they would have thought twice when they came back into the class. Then she could have actually got on with the job she was trained for, and now being paid for. Underlining fact, don't blame the teachers. They are not paid to sort out little buggers, they are paid to teach.

 

[steveo]

Had she been able to send the little buggers to the Headteacher's office to get the cane, I'm damn sure they would have thought twice when they came back into the class

Spot on. The soft teachers at school didnt really achieve much. The ones who would shout or send you for the can commanded a lot more respect.

however i'm completely against it being done by anyone other than the childs parent. to bring it back into schools is ludicrous in my opinion, i thought we had move on since then?!!

Do you think school children are better behaved now than when caning was in force?

 

[OldBlueLady]

Ok, rather calmer this morning. To go back to your point about respecting teachers BiaL, I had a French teacher at school who was a Doctor of Philosophy, I used to be a nuisance in her classes to brighten up boring lessons and because I knew I could get away with it - I used to be able to have nose bleeds almost at will, and frequently managed to have them during her lessons. I had her for 5 years and she never cottoned on to it, although to be fair, once I'd started my O levels, I didn't do it so much. Now, that's rather different to the kind of things students do nowadays but I hope it illustrates the point, doesn't matter what qualifications you have, the best ones don't always make the best person for the job. Incidentally, this was always my experience in Banking as well, we used to get graduates in on an excelerated managerial programme, and they were almost always useless.

The problem is that teachers are powerless these days and the kids know it. Oiks like being excluded because parents don't discipline them at home, as I said elsewhere, if a kid's excluded they are supposed to do appropriate work at home - I should imagine very few of them do. The kid I work with, remember, he's only 7, was excluded for a week. I made up a work pack of 2 sheets of worksheets to do a day - he came back with one piece that was about 75% completed and had spent the rest of the time playing on his PS2.

Like Rusty, I'd be interested to know of those who voted against, how many of them actually have children, particularly of school age.

 

[steveo]

I made up a work pack of 2 sheets of worksheets to do a day - he came back with one piece that was about 75% completed and had spent the rest of the time playing on his PS2.

Is there a further punishment for this or is that it?

 

[OldBlueLady]

Is there a further punishment for this or is that it?

How can you punish the parent for not supervising the child adequately? If the child throws a strop and says they're not doing it, there are huge numbers of parents who give in, opting for the easier option of letting them do what they want, or not, as the case may be. This is a troubled child of 7 hopelessly unfulfilling his potential, but used to "getting away" with things - that's the challenge I face every day.

 

[londonblue]

my son is aged 22 and i have in the past clumped him approx 3 or 4 times,my daughter is 19 ansd i have never clumped her must admit came very close.

anyway my kids dont even chuck litter on the floor,true my boy gets excited at the hall at the away fans ,but both are well adjusted both work and both have never been involved with the police and both certainly dont touch drugs.

as their father i think i did okayish in teaching them right from wrong.

But using your beliefs your daughter should be less well behaved than your son, because you didn't hit her? The fact that she isn't proves that corporal punishment isn't necessary.

 

[graysblue]

But using your beliefs your daughter should be less well behaved than your son, because you didn't hit her? The fact that she isn't proves that corporal punishment isn't necessary.

maybe it was because my daughter saw me slap her brother and maybe just maybe she thought i dont want that.

i believe in every walk of line there is a line which if anyone oversteps they should know the consequences,sadly i have witnessed young kids out of control and even sadder their parents have no control.

 

[londonblue]

Regarding parenting, there are some right little buggers at my place, who misbehave and try and get away with pretty much anything. When phoning the parents to mention about their behaviour, they tend to have none of it, claiming that their children are angels and wouldnt do anything like it and so moan at us instead saying that we are making it up and other things.

The problem is that teachers are powerless these days and the kids know it.

Both of these are exactly the point. But giving teachers powers doesn't have to include the cane. Why go from one extreme to the other? As I have said many times before, the issue is with parents not backing the school and ensuring their children are punished when they do wrong. BUT THAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE THE CANE.

(Talking of bad parents, I remember a great story from about 5 years ago of a 12yr old girl who got pregnant by her 13yr old boyfriend. Her mother blamed the government for not giving children sex education lessons in school. Someone else pointed out that it was her that allowed the two of them to sleep in the same bed in her house. She just didn't get it!)

Incidentally, this was always my experience in Banking as well, we used to get graduates in on an excelerated managerial programme, and they were almost always useless.

I assume you meant accelerated?!!

Still no-one has answered this question?

Moreover, where do you draw the line? What do you do with the kid that keeps offending, and the cane doesn't work? Do you hit him harder next time? What about the time after that? Do you stop when you draw blood, or is that just the start? In my opinion there is simply no place in a civilised society for violence of any kind.

 

[londonblue]

maybe it was because my daughter saw me slap her brother and maybe just maybe she thought i dont want that.

i believe in every walk of line there is a line which if anyone oversteps they should know the consequences,sadly i have witnessed young kids out of control and even sadder their parents have no control.

So do I. I just don't believe you should have to resort to violence and assault. There are much better ways of instilling discipline. As already asked, (about 2 minutes ago!) why go from one extreme to the other? Surely there's some middle ground?