Protest for the Derby Friendly

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Cheers mate!
Depends if today is "Blinkers Off" Monday...
I am guessing with the three individuals who keep taking me to task for chipping away at Ron MarSpin, it won't be though!

Some people can put up a defense of Ron Martin without actually answering awkward questions.

I've asked a few times on here, can anyone explain the 4.7million loan Ron took and what was it used for?. I said it may be perfectly above board. But as S.U.F.C. is in bed with Martin Dawn plc, I think Southend fans should know.
Sadly, no one has answered.

Anyone?

 

[Beefy]

Sorry to quote you directly but you (& two certain other people who appear to be blindly fighting from the same corner), need to consider the "management fee" debacle. On the one hand you have people analysing the accounts and saying X amount has been paid in management fees, you then have Chris Phillips and the Echo stating these fees were in the region of at least £60k per year. This is offset by Our Glorious Leader stating, on more than one occasion he had not taken a penny out of the football club.

That's even before we get into the £72k debt to Deloittes for assisting with the retail park feasibility study, come on then Market Analysts, tell me just exactly why SOUTHEND UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB and not the project managers, eg Martin Dawn plc should pay for this expense?

Those are drops in the ocean. Take those out and we're still massively operationally loss-making and haemorrhaging cash.

I'm not saying it's right that the Club have been charged a management fee, and I certainly don't think that the Club should be paying anything for a retail park that it won't own. But we don't know many/any details about it other than a story in the local rag. And if it's a debt then surely by definition it hasn't been paid by the football club.

It's not in Ron Martin's interests to take money out of the football club because it's a business that obviously doesn't generate any cash and ultimately he has to put money back in to cover our operating losses (hence the loan from Sainsburys, etc). But if he was looking to take money out he wouldn't need to do it in an underhand manner - he could just claim some of the millions of pounds of unpaid rent that the Club legally, contractually owe him.

No one is fighting from any corner. No one is supporting Ron Martin and everyone wants the same thing - a thriving football club for us all to support. But as someone said earlier people find it easy to believe anything they read and therefore I make no apologies for challenging what I see as lies, errors or misunderstandings. There's plenty in the accounts which tell a shocking story of appalling mismanagement and poor business practice. Criticise for that, by all means - I certainly have and was doing so when people were suggesting that spending £300k on Theo Robinson might be a good idea. But there's no evidence at all to support any of the allegations of financial wrong-doings which fly round this place on a daily basis.

 

[Beefy]

Sorry Steveo, I normally agree with an awful lot of what you have to say but if you knew the strict sanctions that Tilson was working under right until his dismissal then you'd understand the dross we put out on the field last season wasn't entirely Steve's fault!

Oh and this isn't conjecture or speculation before anybody cares to cry wolf...

If you know something and can't/won't share it then to the rest of us it is conjecture and speculation. Why should I believe everything you say? I don't know you.

 

[Beefy]

Some people can put up a defense of Ron Martin without actually answering awkward questions.

I've asked a few times on here, can anyone explain the 4.7million loan Ron took and what was it used for?. I said it may be perfectly above board. But as S.U.F.C. is in bed with Martin Dawn plc, I think Southend fans should know.
Sadly, no one has answered.

Anyone?

According to Firestorm the accounts for Martin Dawn show no such loan.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

According to Firestorm the accounts for Martin Dawn show no such loan.

11] Martin Dawn plc [prop. Ron Martin] owns 50% of South Eastern Leisure UK [prop. Ron Martin] which owns 76% of the club's shares. Martin Dawn plc has debts of £7.6m and is facing a winding-up order from HMRC.The club pays Martin Dawn plc £60,000 per annum as a 'management fee' but what it does for this money has never been specified.
Between 2006 and 2009 Mr Martin took interest-free loans from Martin Dawn plc amounting to £4.7m.

12] Southend United owes £1m to South Eastern Leisure which in turn owes more than £3m to Martin Dawn. Mezcal Investments is owed £1m by Southend United, £3.58m by South Eastern Leisure UK Ltd. and £930,000 by Roots Hall Ltd. It is not known how these debts are linked to Ron Martin's other companies in the British Virgin islands, Cyprus and Jersey! In total, Ron Martin owns 29 companies - 12 of which are registered in this country. The 12 registered here are in debt to the tune of £22m!



Surely it should show in the Martin Dawn accounts.

 

[Beefy]

So you're believing something that was copied from a Grimsby Town forum which took most of it's info from the Echo which claimed to get it's info from the Accounts. But you won't believe the Accounts themselves?

Martin Dawn's accounts do show a series of loans going to Ron Martin (although the loan balance at the end of the 09 figures was £900k and not the £4.7m which the story you quote from makes it look like is owed). Funnily enough our accounts show a series of loans from Ron Martin to us. One possible explanation would be that the owner of both companies was taking money from the stronger company to subsidise the weaker company. That would be pure speculation though.

 

[palexander]

Sorry to quote you directly but you (& two certain other people who appear to be blindly fighting from the same corner), need to consider the "management fee" debacle. On the one hand you have people analysing the accounts and saying X amount has been paid in management fees, you then have Chris Phillips and the Echo stating these fees were in the region of at least £60k per year. This is offset by Our Glorious Leader stating, on more than one occasion he had not taken a penny out of the football club.

That's even before we get into the £72k debt to Deloittes for assisting with the retail park feasibility study, come on then Market Analysts, tell me just exactly why SOUTHEND UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB and not the project managers, eg Martin Dawn plc should pay for this expense?

I dont know a geat deal about the financial ins and out - but would I be unhappy if Martin is getting £60k a year in 'management fees'. No I wouldnt. If he has lied about taking money from the club, thats a different matter.

But for a chairman to take a 'salary' for the job he does is not outrageous in my eyes.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I dont know a geat deal about the financial ins and out - but would I be unhappy if Martin is getting £60k a year in 'management fees'. No I wouldnt. If he has lied about taking money from the club, thats a different matter.

But for a chairman to take a 'salary' for the job he does is not outrageous in my eyes.

Particularly when Col Ewe's equivalent takes a sum more than double that for racking up losses more than double ours.

Anyway, it's the same with me as posted above. Until someone can come with substantial evidence that RM's been embezzling finance from the club (and, let's face it, he wouldn't be the smartest tool in the box embezzling cash from a habitually defaulting football club) then I can't see how people can use the accusation as ammunition.

 

[Firestorm]

I will not be protesting, not because I believe one way or the other . I will involved in the Rubins out campaign, I can not remember for the life of me why, we were struggling on the pitch true and there had been press reports of a move away from the town I know but the protests which followed were hatefull , nasty affairs which made the daily papers for all the wrong reasons and looking back on it I am quite ashamed of what went on at that time. For what ? we acheived in getting Anton Johnson in charge, and the financial turmoil that caused meant we almost went bust 4 years later.

As for the previous comments .

Management fee. RM has said that he has never taken a penny out of the club, the management fee is paid to MD for the provision of Management services, RM and GK are both employees of MD (and there may well be a PA / Secretarial resource too) That I assume , is what the fee covers. Therefore RM is factually correct in what he says.

The loan of 4.7M is from MD to RM, looking at MD's accounts I believe that the echo's reporting is disengenuous, "RM has taken 4.7M of loans from MD" is what the echo says, I have only seen the latest accounts (so it shows figures for for 2008 & 2009) in that time RM has taken loans out from MD for 3.5M , he had paid back 2.6M of theses by the end of the 2009 accounting period. I can well imagine that he has taken loans from MD, but the evidence is that its mainly been paid back.

As for the gut feeling that there was something wrong, I agree, there is a gut feeling that something was wrong, but I will be buggered if I can find anything in the accounts as they have been published, and considering they will have been independently audited and , by all accounts have had the Serious Fraud Office go over them as well I am not going with my guts on this one


I imagine that

 

[canveyshrimper]

I fully agree with your first paragraph Gary, which is why I have always argued for caution in those wanting RM out for the sake of it. That period in our history was distasteful in the extreme, and I've regretted what happened for many years since, not least the advent of Anton Johnson.

However there's one thing I cannot reconcile, at the Q&A Ron Martin stated that Mezcal & Tribeca were set up to run the development of the FF project. We are told that SUFC have not paid a penny in the set up or development costs, yet I've heard mention on here (and I can't find it now) that SUFC owe Mezcal in the region of one million pounds, a situation which has completely baffled me.

 

[Napster]

it's all about creative accoutancy - paying one off another.

ps jobson used to pay management charges to himself as well - 60k a year i remember.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Your right he is entitled to do what he wants with it, thus the late payment of HMRC, Staff, Players, management and Suppliers. I think the fundamental problem is that some people feel that there is nothing that can be done but get behind the team as Ron is here to stay, others feel that they need to get there point across to Ron as they also know he is here to stay but want to try and make him realise that they cannot stand by and watch. We are all different people, which makes the world a better place, lets be honest if we were all the same then there would be 10,000 Flags inside Roots Hall on a match day.

I personally cannot get enthused about the Positives as Roots Hall at the moment, because of Ron Martin. I dont know how i am going to get over it. Maybe i wont, and im afraid whilst there is a forum that lets me have an opinion i will.

I just hope that as the people who dont want to see a protest and feel that the best course of action is to support Sturrock, respect the wishes of those who do want to protest and for whatever reason they want to protest. Im sure as well as the people who go and shout outside Roots Hall many more will be writing to the Echo, Ron, Sainsburys, etc. Ron Martin has severely mismanaged OUR football club and continues to promise things he cannot deliver, I also honestly don't know the answer to the problem. I know there isnt a knight in shining armour but the way he contines to treat people isn't on but again he has the majority share so he can **** on who he likes.

I will also admit i don't understand Pboreham, Beefy, DaveWebbsBrain, yours and others who just want to get on with it, i respect your decisions but cannot get it through my thick head. I hate negativity, but RM has completely battered me on this one. Im stumped and feel ****. For the first time in 30 years, i dont feel like i have a football club to support.

Top post. How i feel too.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Again fair points KS but in what way has he mismaged it?

Are you for real?

The whole situation we're in now is due to financial mismanagement.

 

[lee bradbury is a legend]

What time does the protest start tonight?

 

[Firestorm]

I fully agree with your first paragraph Gary, which is why I have always argued for caution in those wanting RM out for the sake of it. That period in our history was distasteful in the extreme, and I've regretted what happened for many years since, not least the advent of Anton Johnson.

However there's one thing I cannot reconcile, at the Q&A Ron Martin stated that Mezcal & Tribeca were set up to run the development of the FF project. We are told that SUFC have not paid a penny in the set up or development costs, yet I've heard mention on here (and I can't find it now) that SUFC owe Mezcal in the region of one million pounds, a situation which has completely baffled me.

Because they lent SUFC Money ?

 

[steveo]

Are you for real?

The whole situation we're in now is due to financial mismanagement.

Ok Westy please enlighten me of the financial mismanagement.
If we are talking about signing players that didn’t perform, like Paynter and Foran and Walker, then Im guessing these were Tillsons choices, backed by Ron. Is this what you are talking about?

If we are talking about signing players to try and keep us in the Championship, which was a demand made by most of the fans on here, that was a financial gamble, not mismanagement.
Has Ron ferreted away a fortune form the Football club? I don’t think he has, so that’s hardly mismanagement and charging 60 grand a year for management fees is hardly extortionate is it.

Now I am not a big Ron fan, far from it, and I don’t think a 22000 seat stadium is sensible, but I am trying to put a realistic view here. Most people are blaming Ron for all the problems which is fair enough as he is in charge but expecting him to pay is way out when he doesn’t have enough money is not a viable proposition.

If he was a multi millionaire and didn’t pay the bills then that’s different. But he isn’t and people don’t seem to get it

Now, please explain say, 5 examples of his mismanagement, just so we are all clear.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Foran and Walker most certainly not ST's first choices and have been detailed elsewhere many many times before...

 

[Jack The Flag]

What time does the protest start tonight?

Around 7pm i think

 

[southend4ever]

Anyone want to protest tonight at the price of fresh fruit Salad's at Sainsbury instead?

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

Just hope people have changed their mind, and will go and watch the game aswell as protest if they 'need' to before the game.