Protest for the Derby Friendly

[GBJ]

Ok Westy please enlighten me of the financial mismanagement.
If we are talking about signing players that didn’t perform, like Paynter and Foran and Walker, then Im guessing these were Tillsons choices, backed by Ron. Is this what you are talking about?

If we are talking about signing players to try and keep us in the Championship, which was a demand made by most of the fans on here, that was a financial gamble, not mismanagement.
Has Ron ferreted away a fortune form the Football club? I don’t think he has, so that’s hardly mismanagement and charging 60 grand a year for management fees is hardly extortionate is it.

Now I am not a big Ron fan, far from it, and I don’t think a 22000 seat stadium is sensible, but I am trying to put a realistic view here. Most people are blaming Ron for all the problems which is fair enough as he is in charge but expecting him to pay is way out when he doesn’t have enough money is not a viable proposition.

If he was a multi millionaire and didn’t pay the bills then that’s different. But he isn’t and people don’t seem to get it

Now, please explain say, 5 examples of his mismanagement, just so we are all clear.

What's your take on these two points i've highltighted Steveo;

1) Ron categoriacelly stated he doesn't take any form of wage from SUFC....

2) Ron's big house and flash motor would suggest he's not skint. Ok, he's no Abramovich, but he's got enough to live a lavish lifestyle

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Now, please explain say, 5 examples of his mismanagement, just so we are all clear.

Not having the sufficient foresight to cover tax / NI payments, resulting in HMRC bringing court proceedings in late 2009.

Not having the sufficient foresight to cover tax / NI payments, resulting in HMRC bringing court proceedings in the early part of 2010.

Not having the sufficient foresight to cover tax / NI payments, resulting in HMRC bringing court proceedings this summer.

Borrowing money against projected future ticket sales, resulting in Charterhouse bringing court proceedings this summer.

Agreeing to contracts where it was known that either the club could not afford to pay such a wage over the period of the contract, or that there was a possibility of such an occurence happening.

There's 5 off the top of my head.

I'm beyond angry, and believe me Steve this reply isn't aimed as a slight at you, but there has undeniably been a stream of financial mismanagement decision making which has culminated in the past 9 months or so of misery permeating around the club. That, at the very least, has to be acknowledged.

I don't want to be supporting a football club where I'm in a state of almost permanent frustration off-pitch as well as on (the latter is almost a given). I don't want to have to wade through page after page of Echo news, anecdote, or circumstantial whispers. I don't want players, or ex-players now, sharing a pork scratching and gossiping about what board member said what to which player. I don't want supporters ragging off at each other every day.

All I want is the truth. The words 'independent' and 'audit' was the first bit of good news I read for a while. Whoever is to blame and how much now is irrelevant. Getting the club running in a proper fashion, as opposed to relying on handouts from well known retailers with a vested interest in making profit and little else, is of paramount importance.

That, more to me, is why I have such antipathy towards Ron Martin at the moment. I cannot believe a single word he says now. I wouldn't say I'm a cynic, more of an open-minded sceptic when it comes to football directors, but the official statements of saying one thing, and something else happening, have been going on far too regularly now. I don't hate the bloke. He's been reasonably civil to me the few times we've met. I just hate what his stewardship at boardroom level has led the club into.

It is why I want the man to go. Call me old fashioned but I want decency in a club from top to bottom, When something is wrong I don't want it to be there. And it's for that reason that I'm quite happy to stand outside the ground prior to kick-off tonight and peacefully protest.

Anyway, senile rambling over.

 

[GBJ]

Just hope people have changed their mind, and will go and watch the game aswell as protest if they 'need' to before the game.

You were one of the main advocators for a protest! What's made you change your tune?

 

[Firestorm]

But he said he doesn't take any wage. What's your take on that Steveo?

And the Club is not paying RM a wage, they are paying Martin Dawn a management fee which covers the time Martin Dawn Employees (RM , GK and probably a PR/Secretarial resource) spend on SUFC business and not working for the company who pays their wages

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

You were one of the main advocators for a protest! What's made you change your tune?

I will protest at the start before the game, but I want to watch the trialists.
I was the person that started the group, I am fully behind getting Ron Martin out. I will protest, but I am also completely behind the new management.

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

I will protest at the start before the game, but I want to watch the trialists.
I was the person that started the group, I am fully behind getting Ron Martin out. I will protest, but I am also completely behind the new management.

To add to my post, I want Ron Martin out, but he isn't going to go anywhere, it doesn't change my hate.

 

[Firestorm]

Not having the sufficient foresight to cover tax / NI payments, resulting in HMRC bringing court proceedings in late 2009.

Not having the sufficient foresight to cover tax / NI payments, resulting in HMRC bringing court proceedings in the early part of 2010.

Not having the sufficient foresight to cover tax / NI payments, resulting in HMRC bringing court proceedings this summer.

Borrowing money against projected future ticket sales, resulting in Charterhouse bringing court proceedings this summer.

Agreeing to contracts where it was known that either the club could not afford to pay such a wage over the period of the contract, or that there was a possibility of such an occurence happening.

There's 5 off the top of my head.

What if RM chose to borrow the Season ticket money in advance of receiving it in order to cover and expense which needed paying ?

Also , Re insufficient foresight, that is not mismanagement but an error of judgement , as is calling for a war chest and players XYZ to be signed when we should have been extoling the vitues of saving the money.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing ....

One could argue that as the club has managed to avoid Administration despite losing money on the footballing side for many years , there are a quite a few clubs who would have welcomed "mismanagement" of the SUFC scale

 

[Beefy]

What if RM chose to borrow the Season ticket money in advance of receiving it in order to cover and expense which needed paying ?

That, I presume, is exactly what has happened. And it's exactly what should have happened. When a business is struggling for cash the two things it is supposed to do in order to keep going is get income in as early as possible and to delay making any payments out for as long as possible. These both represent positive movements on the cashflow statement. It's obviously not a long term solution but I guess the long term solution for a business which is losing cash is to dig in as long as possible whilst you re-structure the business and then hope that you somehow survive to turn things around.

As I've said before, if Ron Martin can get us to Fossetts Farm despite a lack of any cash himself, despite huge losses continuing to be made and with no obvious way for him to bridge the gap between our income and our expenditure then it will be a remarkable piece of business on his part, even if it will completely alienate a lot of the fanbase in the process.

His biggest error by a mile was a complete lack of foresight when we got promoted to the Championship. I don't know why he thought that we should have stayed up that season but that is obviously what he did think and the contracts which he signed back then, and the next season in an effort to go back up, are what crippled us. It wasn't just the size of the wages, it was the length of the contracts and the lack of clauses in the contracts to reduce the wages in the event of relegation.

Had he been more prudent at the time then we wouldn't be in this state. Of course he'd have been slated by the fans for not showing enough ambition ("where's the warchest, Ron?") but at least we'd be relatively stable at the moment.

 

[fbm]

That, I presume, is exactly what has happened. And it's exactly what should have happened. When a business is struggling for cash the two things it is supposed to do in order to keep going is get income in as early as possible and to delay making any payments out for as long as possible. These both represent positive movements on the cashflow statement. It's obviously not a long term solution but I guess the long term solution for a business which is losing cash is to dig in as long as possible whilst you re-structure the business and then hope that you somehow survive to turn things around.

As I've said before, if Ron Martin can get us to Fossetts Farm despite a lack of any cash himself, despite huge losses continuing to be made and with no obvious way for him to bridge the gap between our income and our expenditure then it will be a remarkable piece of business on his part, even if it will completely alienate a lot of the fanbase in the process.

His biggest error by a mile was a complete lack of foresight when we got promoted to the Championship. I don't know why he thought that we should have stayed up that season but that is obviously what he did think and the contracts which he signed back then, and the next season in an effort to go back up, are what crippled us. It wasn't just the size of the wages, it was the length of the contracts and the lack of clauses in the contracts to reduce the wages in the event of relegation.

Had he been more prudent at the time then we wouldn't be in this state. Of course he'd have been slated by the fans for not showing enough ambition ("where's the warchest, Ron?") but at least we'd be relatively stable at the moment.

In fairness I think he made the warchest available for the players Tilly wanted and the Agents basically lay down the terms under which those players would come here - or not. Whether Ron truly believed we would stay up I don't know - I know he said he did and after the 5-0 demolition of QPR I think we all felt we'd get out of the mire as we had home games against teams around us at the bottom. But he wanted us to stay up as he wanted us to have the new stadium and then he wanted to sell up and bu**er off. He took whatever action he could to keep us in the CCC and I agree, that is what has cost us.

None of those items on his wishlist have happened yet.

 

[Bratislava Blue]

I will protest at the start before the game, but I want to watch the trialists.
I was the person that started the group, I am fully behind getting Ron Martin out. I will protest, but I am also completely behind the new management.

So where you protest precisely take place so that not to have a negative effect on the goings on of tonights friendly?.... Something that I think that is more important....

The players need to hear vocal support not any barricking or protest!

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

So where you protest precisely take place so that not to have a negative effect on the goings on of tonights friendly?.... Something that I think that is more important....

The players need to hear vocal support not any barricking or protest!

To be honest I just made the group, I'm not the ring leader in this, the Southend United - Who cares? group have taken control of it, it is fine with me, hopefully we can get a good little atmosphere going, as it's much more fun to watch a friendly with a bit of singing going on. I wont singing songs about Ron Martin's **** ups inside the Hall.

I personally can't wait to get back in there. Hopefully people will go to the game, I would imagine most will.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Foran and Walker most certainly not ST's first choices and have been detailed elsewhere many many times before...

Nor Freedman by all accounts.

There's some very intelligent posting on this thread from people that actually DO seem to have some good understanding of just what would appear to have been going on. As far as I'm concerned though, tonight is just not the time for a protest, I mean, Ron isn't even going to be there if, according to what most seem to be saying, he's away on holiday. So it's a pointless exercise in my opinion, especially in the light of the appointment of Paul Sturrock in what is a clear indication of a football battle ahead. I take that to mean that this squad is going to have some guts about it and that being so, I'd far rather people got out there to support them. If you want to protest against Ron then by all means do so, but not when Sturrock and the team are trying to pull things together.

 

[hindle_666]

i'll be getting a sheet this afternoon and i will splash some blue paint on it any ideas?

I thought just the simple martin out

the legend has gone his army live on!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hindle_666]

bring it on!!!!! ;~)

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Your right he is entitled to do what he wants with it, thus the late payment of HMRC, Staff, Players, management and Suppliers. I think the fundamental problem is that some people feel that there is nothing that can be done but get behind the team as Ron is here to stay, others feel that they need to get there point across to Ron as they also know he is here to stay but want to try and make him realise that they cannot stand by and watch. We are all different people, which makes the world a better place, lets be honest if we were all the same then there would be 10,000 Flags inside Roots Hall on a match day.

I personally cannot get enthused about the Positives as Roots Hall at the moment, because of Ron Martin. I dont know how i am going to get over it. Maybe i wont, and im afraid whilst there is a forum that lets me have an opinion i will.

I just hope that as the people who dont want to see a protest and feel that the best course of action is to support Sturrock, respect the wishes of those who do want to protest and for whatever reason they want to protest. Im sure as well as the people who go and shout outside Roots Hall many more will be writing to the Echo, Ron, Sainsburys, etc. Ron Martin has severely mismanaged OUR football club and continues to promise things he cannot deliver, I also honestly don't know the answer to the problem. I know there isnt a knight in shining armour but the way he contines to treat people isn't on but again he has the majority share so he can **** on who he likes.

I will also admit i don't understand Pboreham, Beefy, DaveWebbsBrain, yours and others who just want to get on with it, i respect your decisions but cannot get it through my thick head. I hate negativity, but RM has completely battered me on this one. Im stumped and feel ****. For the first time in 30 years, i dont feel like i have a football club to support.

I know Ron is seen as this monster, and not paying players is totally wrong, but not pay players or not pay someone that will close us down.what choice did he have. I don't agree with what he has done, but can see why he has. He had a great plan for SUFC, all in place, then the financial climate changes and he struggles. had that happened a year later, all would be hunky dory.

Many many people on here are viewing Tilson as some sort of a god, buying him presents to say thank you (what the hell is that about)...Albeit maybe the last month or so, he was paid very well to do a job, which he did in a decent way. We got promoted twice with the aid of Eastwood, but what happened when Eastwood became disillusioned? He didn't play to his potential and we got relegated. He moved on and we got relegated again a couple of years later.

Martin stood by Tilson the whole time, and although you can't wholly blame Tilson for our relegation at the end of the season, results are down to a manager at the end of the day.

I think now is the right time for a change of Manager and staff, a big clear out. Maybe we will be flying high this season, maybe we won't. It's all in the hands of the gods, fate I think it's called. What happens happens. Having a protest isn't going to tell Ron something he doesn't already know. However, big support for the players and Sturrock will tell them something they are not sure of at the moment:

That they have the full backing of the fans, something that may prove crucial in helping gain promotion.

 

[sammyboy]

Is tonights game on radio?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Is tonights game on radio?

No, but the protest is ;)

 

[John Cena]

Can't be arsed to read through all the posts. Can someone please inform me is the strike going ahead or not?

 

[steveo]

What's your take on these two points i've highltighted Steveo;

1) Ron categoriacelly stated he doesn't take any form of wage from SUFC....

2) Ron's big house and flash motor would suggest he's not skint. Ok, he's no Abramovich, but he's got enough to live a lavish lifestyle

Management fees are probably from one of his other companies. Cant be sure because I dont kn ow but in the grand scheme of things 60 grand isnt massive.

Rons house is probably worth 1.5m and for all we know is mortgaged to the hilt. He presumably had all these trappings before becoming mr Southend so why should he give them up now?

Point taken though GJB, he is wealthy but I dont think hes making money form the club.

 

[steveo]

Not having the sufficient foresight to cover tax / NI payments, resulting in HMRC bringing court proceedings in late 2009.

Not having the sufficient foresight to cover tax / NI payments, resulting in HMRC bringing court proceedings in the early part of 2010.

Not having the sufficient foresight to cover tax / NI payments, resulting in HMRC bringing court proceedings this summer.

Borrowing money against projected future ticket sales, resulting in Charterhouse bringing court proceedings this summer.

Agreeing to contracts where it was known that either the club could not afford to pay such a wage over the period of the contract, or that there was a possibility of such an occurence happening.

There's 5 off the top of my head.

I'm beyond angry, and believe me Steve this reply isn't aimed as a slight at you, but there has undeniably been a stream of financial mismanagement decision making which has culminated in the past 9 months or so of misery permeating around the club. That, at the very least, has to be acknowledged.

I don't want to be supporting a football club where I'm in a state of almost permanent frustration off-pitch as well as on (the latter is almost a given). I don't want to have to wade through page after page of Echo news, anecdote, or circumstantial whispers. I don't want players, or ex-players now, sharing a pork scratching and gossiping about what board member said what to which player. I don't want supporters ragging off at each other every day.

All I want is the truth. The words 'independent' and 'audit' was the first bit of good news I read for a while. Whoever is to blame and how much now is irrelevant. Getting the club running in a proper fashion, as opposed to relying on handouts from well known retailers with a vested interest in making profit and little else, is of paramount importance.

That, more to me, is why I have such antipathy towards Ron Martin at the moment. I cannot believe a single word he says now. I wouldn't say I'm a cynic, more of an open-minded sceptic when it comes to football directors, but the official statements of saying one thing, and something else happening, have been going on far too regularly now. I don't hate the bloke. He's been reasonably civil to me the few times we've met. I just hate what his stewardship at boardroom level has led the club into.

It is why I want the man to go. Call me old fashioned but I want decency in a club from top to bottom, When something is wrong I don't want it to be there. And it's for that reason that I'm quite happy to stand outside the ground prior to kick-off tonight and peacefully protest.

Anyway, senile rambling over.

Your first 5 points are all valid but all point to someone trying to keep up with the Jones' in footballing terms, when the money was probably never there in the first place. I dont think spending money on projected season ticket sales is unreasonable, I wouldnt be surprised if most clubs do it. The problem with football is that for a club to compete it has to spend usually more money that it has got. Burnley didnt and look what happened. As supporters, we all want our club to buy new players and im sure to a degree that Ron did this in a bid to stay in the Championship.
I also believe that in the next season or so we will see some spectacular failures throughout the League and with the next bunch of rules from UEFA some of the biggest clubs in europe will be affected.

Maybe it has hit Southend earlier than a lot of other clubs but if Ron can muddle through this mess and the team can avoid relegation, we might be in a stronger position than most in a few seasons. But, "like you say" if everyone was kept informed of what is actually happening, Ron woud get a lot more sympathy from the fans than he is doing at the moment.

Ive linked to this before, but if you get a few minutes, have a read of some of these articles, particularly West Ham, Harry Redknapp and the UEFA fair play one. If most of the stuff this bloke says is true then we can expect some interesting times ahead: http://swissramble.blogspot.com