Promotion and relegation 2019/20 season

[Rob1920]

I just don’t see how anyone can be promoted or relegated when the season hasn’t been played out. Just void it, it’s the fairest solution in an unfortunate situation.

 

[kentblues]

35 k views ! 850 replies !
I have to say that I think I’ve read all of them and there are more than a few interesting observations but nothing that seriously challenges/rivals my original proposition.
As it was back then,March 24th,it is still abundantly clear that meaningful football is not going to happen this season,especially in our country with it’s hopelessly incompetent “government”.
Games behind closed doors,neutral grounds—forget it! And the same goes for RELEGATION and most laughable of all PLAY-OFFS !
BUT I repeat : those teams who have played well enough to occupy a clear ascendancy at the very top of their leagues must be rewarded.I would now narrow my original list down slightly to just these 7 CLEAR leaders:-
Liverpool
Leeds and WBA
Coventry
Crewe and Swindon
Barrow

This gives us a perfectly manageable set-up for the new season 2020/21 (which we can hope will start in August):
Prem. 22 clubs
Champ 23
Lg 1. 24
Lg 2. 23
It wouldn’t be at all difficult to revert to 20/24/24/24 for the 2021/22 season if required.

This is effectively the "promotion on merit" option - the difference is you are not promoting all clubs in the automatics. But actually this is an unnecessary "complication" as the numbers work very well if you promote all in the automatics and have no relegation.

It is a good option.

Unfortunately it failed to take account of the threatening and self interested antics not only of clubs in the L1 playoff places but clubs who can get into the play off places.

The EFL has gone from panicking about being sued by clubs relegated (and how that might be avoided) to worrying about being sued by various clubs at either end of the equation.

Normally order and the "integrity of the game" would be restored by the EFL saying we will uphold and implement the competition rules (and if they got sued they would likely win- because the rules are clear). Because they have themselves decided to ignore their own rules they are in a massive mess of their own making.

The one thing that might save them is the likes of Peterborough may realise that if they take legal action the likely result is no promotions or relegations at all. Does that help them? Hence, for all the threats in the world the EFL may have to call their bluff.

Even with their preferred PPG solution it still leaves them at the mercy of relegated clubs, what happens in the Championship and what happens in the Prem.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

Hearts FC already planned to sue their SFA as they cancelled SPL & their own SPA choose to relegate Hearts.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Hearts FC already planned to sue their SFA as they cancelled SPL & their own SPA choose to relegate Hearts.

this is a weird one, the hearts owner wouldn’t be considering suing if her proposed changes to the structure had gone through, because not Enough supported them in a vote she then sues.

her plans would have seen no relegation from the SPL.

i am making it overly simple, but just shows everyone is only thinking of them selves and don’t care about anything other than money

 

[xekyn92]

I don't understand the obsession with completing the season, in the grand scheme of things EFL football just isn't important right now. That said, if they decide to end the season and use the PPG standings to do promotion & relegation I won't have any complaints, we were all but relegated and don't really deserve to stay in L1 based on our performances this season. As funny and fortunate as it would be to avoid it, relegating us is 100% justified, only Tranmere can really feel hard done by if that's the route they take.

 

[Kestrel]

I don't understand the obsession with completing the season, in the grand scheme of things EFL football just isn't important right now. That said, if they decide to end the season and use the PPG standings to do promotion & relegation I won't have any complaints, we were all but relegated and don't really deserve to stay in L1 based on our performances this season. As funny and fortunate as it would be to avoid it, relegating us is 100% justified, only Tranmere can really feel hard done by if that's the route they take.

You cannot decide a future on conjecture. It is guesswork - nothing more, nothing less.

Whilst unlikely, we could have won 33 points in our remaining fixtures and that would, normally, be about enough for safety. To say we lost x amount of our first 35 games, so we can't possibly win all 11 of our remaining fixtures is absolute nonsense.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Past caring now. There's been no footie since March and in the meantime people have been dying every day since. Really don't care whether we complete the season or not and also whether we stay up or not. Let's just get through this and start over when it is safe to do so

 

[Special Blue]

I just don’t see how anyone can be promoted or relegated when the season hasn’t been played out. Just void it, it’s the fairest solution in an unfortunate situation.

Have to agree although we may not deserve it.
The decision has to be the same from NL to Prem! Unfortunate as it is there are far to many complications otherwise.

 

[Mick]

You cannot decide a future on conjecture. It is guesswork - nothing more, nothing less.

Whilst unlikely, we could have won 33 points in our remaining fixtures and that would, normally, be about enough for safety. To say we lost x amount of our first 35 games, so we can't possibly win all 11 of our remaining fixtures is absolute nonsense.

There is no conjecture and absolutely no guesswork in Points Per Game.

Points per Game positions the teams entirely based on their performances in the 80%, or whatever, of the season that they have actually played.

Not perfect, of course. Some teams will have played Coventry twice and us once. Others vice versa. But it is a big enough percentage of matches played to do a roughly meaningful League table and base promotion for sure (and maybe relegation) on it.

 

[Grayson]

Interestingly if you ended last season with 10 games to go, you'd have 3 different sides relegated to what actually happened. The teams in 21st, 22nd and 24th all survived. The teams that went down instead of them were 15th, 16th and 18th at this stage, whilst Southend were 14th and we all know how close we were to dropping.

That shows how much a season can change in those last 10 matches.

If we go down we cannot complain - and this isn't really about us anymore. Taking the tables as they are now would just be a strange precedent to set.

 

[Barling Magna]

There is no conjecture and absolutely no guesswork in Points Per Game.

Points per Game positions the teams entirely based on their performances in the 80%, or whatever, of the season that they have actually played.

Not perfect, of course. Some teams will have played Coventry twice and us once. Others vice versa. But it is a big enough percentage of matches played to do a roughly meaningful League table and base promotion for sure (and maybe relegation) on it.

Even the season as it had been played wasn't perfect. There were easy points to be gained against Bolton for the first few matches before they got a team together again and then they became somewhat harder to play against.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

There is no conjecture and absolutely no guesswork in Points Per Game.

Points per Game positions the teams entirely based on their performances in the 80%, or whatever, of the season that they have actually played.

Not perfect, of course. Some teams will have played Coventry twice and us once. Others vice versa. But it is a big enough percentage of matches played to do a roughly meaningful League table and base promotion for sure (and maybe relegation) on it.

Usually I concur with your posts and this has some good and fair points.
However with the no show of Bury, and the situation with Bolton in that who ever played them in the first 10 or so games was gifted 3 points ( and some had 6 points off them in 2019 part of season) and the momentum/confidence that gives then, IMO, there is an argument that in Div1 the usual competition has been unbalanced from the start of the season.
Void, annulled : and the EFL need to work on their competition rules so there dilemmas are legislated properly, before anything similar occurs again.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Even the season as it had been played wasn't perfect. There were easy points to be gained against Bolton for the first few matches before they got a team together again and then they became somewhat harder to play against.

You beat me to the post while I was typing!

 

[Chrisb]

Even the season as it had been played wasn't perfect. There were easy points to be gained against Bolton for the first few matches before they got a team together again and then they became somewhat harder to play against.

We too were easy to get points from for quite some time.

 

[Zeuss]

There is no conjecture and absolutely no guesswork in Points Per Game.

Points per Game positions the teams entirely based on their performances in the 80%, or whatever, of the season that they have actually played.

Not perfect, of course. Some teams will have played Coventry twice and us once. Others vice versa. But it is a big enough percentage of matches played to do a roughly meaningful League table and base promotion for sure (and maybe relegation) on it.

No,Mick—Ppg ,even though it is based on what has happened,is still essentially guessing as to what might have followed.As others have pointed out,all sorts of likely and unlikely possibilities exist.
Also,Ppg takes no account of the difficulty of all those games that never got played and then will probably lead to teams being relegated or missing out on promotion by fractions of a point.
So,no—just promote those (7) teams who have indisputably won themselves a position ,at least a few points clear,in the promotion places.They have definitely achieved that by winning and drawing games and there is no guesswork involved in that.

 

[Mick]

Usually I concur with your posts and this has some good and fair points.
However with the no show of Bury, and the situation with Bolton in that who ever played them in the first 10 or so games was gifted 3 points ( and some had 6 points off them in 2019 part of season) and the momentum/confidence that gives then, IMO, there is an argument that in Div1 the usual competition has been unbalanced from the start of the season.
Void, annulled : and the EFL need to work on their competition rules so there dilemmas are legislated properly, before anything similar occurs again.

The situation with Bury has no bearing on how the season's placings should be determined.

Likewise with Bolton. Coventry, League leaders at the end, played them in their second match and weren't gifted 3 points, it was a draw. No club played them twice in the 2019 part of the season, let alone took 6 points off them. They were unbeaten in four of their first 10 matches, unlike us who managed just 1.

There's often a good time to play teams, injuries, suspensions etc.

I don't like the idea of voiding per se. All those matches I watched DID take place and the goals, appearances, points etc should appear in the records. By all means curtail the season and possibly juggle to avoid relegations, if they must (please) but no need to void.

 

[Mick]

No,Mick—Ppg ,even though it is based on what has happened,is still essentially guessing as to what might have followed.As others have pointed out,all sorts of likely and unlikely possibilities exist.
Also,Ppg takes no account of the difficulty of all those games that never got played and then will probably lead to teams being relegated or missing out on promotion by fractions of a point.
So,no—just promote those (7) teams who have indisputably won themselves a position ,at least a few points clear,in the promotion places.They have definitely achieved that by winning and drawing games and there is no guesswork involved in that.

No, it's not. The season stops. They look back on what has happened and arrange the League accordingly. No thought is given to what has not happened.

Indisputable ? Some are more indisputable than others.

To elaborate - of your 7 teams (8 originally with Barrow) only the first three Leeds, West Brom and Coventry could be described as comfortable for promotion let alone indisputable.

Take Rotherham for example who have only won once in their last five games and have six teams no more than one win behind them.

League Two sees the three leaders with two teams snapping at their heels and Barrow in the Nationwide had only won 2 out of 5 with the match against second place potentially pivotal.

So to arbitrarily award these clubs promotion as you wish will presumably be done on the basis of how many points they've got relative to the others. In other words points per game ?

 

[Zeuss]

No, it's not. The season stops. They look back on what has happened and arrange the League accordingly. No thought is given to what has not happened.

Indisputable ? Some are more indisputable than others.

To elaborate - of your 7 teams (8 originally with Barrow) only the first three Leeds, West Brom and Coventry could be described as comfortable for promotion let alone indisputable.

Take Rotherham for example who have only won once in their last five games and have six teams no more than one win behind them.

League Two sees the three leaders with two teams snapping at their heels and Barrow in the Nationwide had only won 2 out of 5 with the match against second place potentially pivotal.

So to arbitrarily award these clubs promotion as you wish will presumably be done on the basis of how many points they've got relative to the others. In other words points per game ?

The part of what you say that would have made good sense(para 3) just shows that you haven’t managed to read the relevant post just 15 posts earlier-no. 860. It clearly lists the 7 teams who have done enough to thoroughly deserve promotion (not for Liverpool!),including Barrow(needed to make up the 92,replacing Bury but ,obviously,NOT Rotherham.
My use of the word “indisputable” was to describe these teams’ entitlement to the position they finished in.
Your use of the phrase “snapping at the heels” involves copious optimism and of course guesswork.

 

[Zeuss]

The part of what you say that would have made good sense(para 3) just shows that you haven’t managed to read the relevant post just 15 posts earlier-no. 860. It clearly lists the 7 teams who have done enough to thoroughly deserve promotion (not for Liverpool!),including Barrow(needed to make up the 92,replacing Bury but ,obviously,NOT Rotherham.
My use of the word “indisputable” was to describe these teams’ entitlement to the position they finished in.
Your use of the phrase “snapping at the heels” involves copious optimism and of course guesswork.

Nor Plymouth for that matter.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

O

Nor Plymouth for that matter.

quick question of those teams you mention had any of them guaranteed promotion or their championship?

if not (and this early in the morning I truly do not know) then surely it is the same case a saying far enough to go for SUFC to stay up as there are 27 points to play for (thats in our division)