Promotion and relegation 2019/20 season

[Brett Angle]

BBC reporting that three Fiorentina players, coaching staff and a Torino player all tested positive for COVID. Top league players are back training in Italy albeit at distance. I suspect Project Restart will fail to start.

 

[Ricey]

I’d love to know the logistics behind it. If one of the players for let’s say Bayern Munich tests positive does that then mean the whole team can’t play? If that’s the case then surely one positive test would mess up the whole thing.

 

[Evening Echo]

SOUTHEND United manager Sol Campbell is ready to deal with however the season is ended.

More...

 

[Austin the Shrimper]

Bad news everyone..looks like we’re getting relegated after all

https://twitter.com/x/status/1258701677860990976

 

[southendkid]

Bad news everyone..looks like we’re getting relegated after all

https://twitter.com/x/status/1258701677860990976

The initial report is from The Athletic who pride themselves on not reporting rumours unless they're confident in the source, so this is likely to be true.

 

[kentblues]

Bad news everyone..looks like we’re getting relegated after all

https://twitter.com/x/status/1258701677860990976

It almost certainly true L1 & 2 will not complete so the report very believable.
But.

All clubs signed up to the competition rules that state in section 10 promotions and relegations are decided at the end of the season. And under definitions section 1 the season ends only once the last fixture is completed. There is no provision for the season to end with all fixtures not completing, and where a club fails to complete its fixtures (e.g. Bury) the rest of their fixtures are voided. Legally the season should be null and void given the leagues own rules- but most clubs think that would be very unfair. And they are right- it is. But they are the rules of the competition. So they will try and agree a solution but it will not be in line with the rules of the competition. If all agree that can still be fine perhaps. I suspect they wont all agree.

So will someone go legal saying the rules of the competition must be upheld?? Will Stevenage just accept the departure from the league? Will Tranmere just accept it given their spending in Jan and resulting run of form? Although it would require a huge dollop of chutzpah will we and Bolton? You would think Tranmere and Stevenage would be particularly unhappy.

Much will depend on the Championship. If that follows in not completing then there will more likelihood of clubs taking legal action on the basis above, and then the chances of others joining in then increases. Will Charlton, Luton and Barnsley just accept relegation when it so very tight at the bottom?

Even more likely it will depend on the Prem. The potential for very significant legal action if they relegate may yet mean still they don’t. Similarly if at the same time the Prem accept promotions from the EFL (another big potential source of legal action otherwise) it then follows EFL relegations won’t happen either as the EFL leagues look to maintain numbers in each division.

So whilst initially it might look like we are doomed to L2 the fat lady is merely leaving the dressing room. And there may be no certainty until the situation in the Prem is finalised.

We deserve to be in L2 and so can accept our fate- I would like to stay in L1 but won't be bent out of shape over it. But any fate next week will be merely provisional.

 

[kentblues]

As a little taster of what will follow the EFL trying to decide the leagues by retrospectively selecting one way of predicting the outcome compared to another I give you the Posh chairman...



Darragh MacAnthony

@DMAC102

3 points from 2nd place. Best goal difference in our league. 9 games left, 5 at home (with one of best home records in league) and we play 7 games I think against 7 of bottom 11 clubs. And @EFL & these owners think @theposhofficial will take these alleged decisions about to
Happen/Get voted on according to the press laying down... not a chance. Prepare for a legal battle of epic proportions & that won't just be from our club, trust me on that.

Now consider the bottom 3 in the Prem and multiply the above by 100..

 

[kentblues]

Wow- just realised how close the top L1 is- Wycombe aren't even in top 6 but are just one point behind Oxford with a game in hand. If it was just points per game Wycome would be 3rd and promoted not Oxford- yet be selecting a points per game with weighting for home and away it Oxford. Yet what weighting do you give current form, the strength of teams still to play, none.

The lawyers are going to have an absolute field day..

 

[Kestrel]

Wow- just realised how close the top L1 is- Wycombe aren't even in top 6 but are just one point behind Oxford with a game in hand. If it was just points per game Wycome would be 3rd and promoted not Oxford- yet be selecting a points per game with weighting for home and away it Oxford. Yet what weighting do you give current form, the strength of teams still to play, none.

The lawyers are going to have an absolute field day..

Unless there is something written into EFL law and regulations, i highly doubt that they can decide final placings on conjecture - which is what is being suggested.

Any team relegated by this means would have every right to fight such decisions through the legal system.

I'm not saying we should stay up, based on our position, but for others it's not so clear cut and no team would accept being relegated on a system of guesswork.

 

[BriggBlue]

Wow, if that's the method they use then they are opening themselves up to whole host of legal challenges, from a Southend point of view we aren't relegated yet so why would we go down without a legal challenge? Similarly a club like Sunderland will miss out on promotion and that is a side that one promotion could easily lead to another.

to my mind this season is like a match with a floodlight failure, when that gets abandoned a result isn't calculated, the original game is abandoned and a new one started.

 

[Shrimper95]

I’ve seen the Fleetwood chairman already saying that they wouldn’t accept this either so don’t think this is a very likely option at this stage.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

I would suggest no relegation and top 3 team get promoted from each division in EFL.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I can’t see any way that any of these options for ‘finishing the season’ will fly, no matter how ‘democratically’ they select it. There will be losers, big time losers who would not vote for the options that lead to a loss for them. Even if outvoted, that will leave a long line of litigation. While voiding the season is unfair on those who did well, it at least isn’t arbitrary, disconnected from the rules of the competition or without precedent. That is the only option that allows ‘force majeure’ to be fully used in legal terms for the outcome of the season. The EFL would be mad to do anything else, despite how unsatisfactory that still is: it is the best worst option, and by some distance when litigation is factored in.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

All caveats above are valid - and had their been say, two games left, one would be pushed to argue with the speculated system - but NINE?
That's 27 points with as it stands, eight points separating, somewhat symmetrically, the top eight.
If the EFL go ahead with a PPG scheme they will almost certainly face legal challenges, because some clubs will be rewarded and others not.
If no one gets anything, it's the same for everyone.

 

[NZamba Legend]

I reckon the EFL were happy to abandon the season with no promotion and relegation. But then they looked again at Southend United and they realised that if this truly godawful team were not relegated it would be one of biggest travesties in the history of world sport. I would argue, however, that we were improving under Sol and still had every chance of staying up.

 

[southendkid]

I reckon the EFL were happy to abandon the season with no promotion and relegation. But then they looked again at Southend United and they realised that if this truly godawful team were not relegated it would be one of biggest travesties in the history of world sport. I would argue, however, that we were improving under Sol and still had every chance of staying up.

Sol had got us to a League 1 standard just before lockdown happened (a minor miracle given the players he had left to work with) but we'd need to have been in title winning form to stay up, I think the best we could have hoped for was to overtake Bolton even if they had their deducted points added back on.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

I reckon the EFL were happy to abandon the season with no promotion and relegation. But then they looked again at Southend United and they realised that if this truly godawful team were not relegated it would be one of biggest travesties in the history of world sport. I would argue, however, that we were improving under Sol and still had every chance of staying up.

Possibly, but it's a toss up with 75/76.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I reckon the EFL were happy to abandon the season with no promotion and relegation. But then they looked again at Southend United and they realised that if this truly godawful team were not relegated it would be one of biggest travesties in the history of world sport. I would argue, however, that we were improving under Sol and still had every chance of staying up.

That team has almost completely gone, thankfully, since January. It isn’t here to be relegated. Those who played since Sol took over don’t deserve the relegation, if it comes. It isn’t their relegation.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

It almost certainly true L1 & 2 will not complete so the report very believable.
But.

All clubs signed up to the competition rules that state in section 10 promotions and relegations are decided at the end of the season. And under definitions section 1 the season ends only once the last fixture is completed. There is no provision for the season to end with all fixtures not completing, and where a club fails to complete its fixtures (e.g. Bury) the rest of their fixtures are voided. Legally the season should be null and void given the leagues own rules- but most clubs think that would be very unfair. And they are right- it is. But they are the rules of the competition. So they will try and agree a solution but it will not be in line with the rules of the competition. If all agree that can still be fine perhaps. I suspect they wont all agree.

So will someone go legal saying the rules of the competition must be upheld?? Will Stevenage just accept the departure from the league? Will Tranmere just accept it given their spending in Jan and resulting run of form? Although it would require a huge dollop of chutzpah will we and Bolton? You would think Tranmere and Stevenage would be particularly unhappy.

Much will depend on the Championship. If that follows in not completing then there will more likelihood of clubs taking legal action on the basis above, and then the chances of others joining in then increases. Will Charlton, Luton and Barnsley just accept relegation when it so very tight at the bottom?

Even more likely it will depend on the Prem. The potential for very significant legal action if they relegate may yet mean still they don’t. Similarly if at the same time the Prem accept promotions from the EFL (another big potential source of legal action otherwise) it then follows EFL relegations won’t happen either as the EFL leagues look to maintain numbers in each division.

So whilst initially it might look like we are doomed to L2 the fat lady is merely leaving the dressing room. And there may be no certainty until the situation in the Prem is finalised.

We deserve to be in L2 and so can accept our fate- I would like to stay in L1 but won't be bent out of shape over it. But any fate next week will be merely provisional.

I think you’re right, there will be huge legal rows if promotion/relegation is decided on PPG in any of the divisions.

I think the final legal decision can only be that the league is considered null and void - no promotion or relegation - on the basis that the season is not completed and promotion/relegation only takes place once it is.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

‘

It almost certainly true L1 & 2 will not complete so the report very believable.
But.

All clubs signed up to the competition rules that state in section 10 promotions and relegations are decided at the end of the season. And under definitions section 1 the season ends only once the last fixture is completed. There is no provision for the season to end with all fixtures not completing, and where a club fails to complete its fixtures (e.g. Bury) the rest of their fixtures are voided. Legally the season should be null and void given the leagues own rules- but most clubs think that would be very unfair. And they are right- it is. But they are the rules of the competition. So they will try and agree a solution but it will not be in line with the rules of the competition. If all agree that can still be fine perhaps. I suspect they wont all agree.

So will someone go legal saying the rules of the competition must be upheld?? Will Stevenage just accept the departure from the league? Will Tranmere just accept it given their spending in Jan and resulting run of form? Although it would require a huge dollop of chutzpah will we and Bolton? You would think Tranmere and Stevenage would be particularly unhappy.

Much will depend on the Championship. If that follows in not completing then there will more likelihood of clubs taking legal action on the basis above, and then the chances of others joining in then increases. Will Charlton, Luton and Barnsley just accept relegation when it so very tight at the bottom?

Even more likely it will depend on the Prem. The potential for very significant legal action if they relegate may yet mean still they don’t. Similarly if at the same time the Prem accept promotions from the EFL (another big potential source of legal action otherwise) it then follows EFL relegations won’t happen either as the EFL leagues look to maintain numbers in each division.

So whilst initially it might look like we are doomed to L2 the fat lady is merely leaving the dressing room. And there may be no certainty until the situation in the Prem is finalised.

We deserve to be in L2 and so can accept our fate- I would like to stay in L1 but won't be bent out of shape over it. But any fate next week will be merely provisional.

As always a very well thought out piece. I haven’t been around much towards the end of the week as things have gotten a little busy as you can imagine.

There are 4 options, the least favourable among the chairman is voiding the league, thats from top to bottom in both divisions, dont get me wrong some like the idea but most (and it is a large amount) don’t. This option would mean no prize money, returning sponsorship etc and most clubs are living hasnt to mouth and do not want to do this, and of course then there are FFP considerations in what happens to this years accounts and that aspect a lot of clubs saying not fair to include of the season didn't happen and finally sporting penalties handed out. Anyway thats one of the options. The other options are PPG, Season ends with results as they are now or the season plays to a finish, this is also not very popular amount chairmen for financial reasons including player contracts (that is a strange one as costs come up but clubs generally play released players till the end of July anyway) however from my side i think it is sensible from both sides (club and player) that the season doesn’t go beyond end of June for L1 and L2.

One of the things I have been looking into is there is a clause in the rules that state any team leaving a competition would have results voided, unless they have completed a certain amount of games, and of that can be use din this circumstance. The clause is ambiguous and something that is being looked into as end in general the season as is revolves around this.

For example if Bury had stated the season the got expelled afire 20 games all those results would be voided, however if the were expelled after say 33 games the results would stand and they other teams playing would get the points, what I have been looking into (with others) is can that be used here, some say yes others say no (I am in this category but i can see why people say yes). One thing os for sure a decision is going to be made soon.

I said ages ago that what ever happens legal challenges would follow, some said i was wrong and that any club doing it was wrong, at the end of the day it comes down to money, always has, always will and at the end of the day always going to happen. It just depends if clubs can afford to do so, if they group together to do so or find other ways.

One more thing the league requires a majority as per the leagues rules to carry any motion, if they get this those legal actions may then be brushed off as the rules are what people sign up to, but then this is unchartered waters and no one can predict what will happen.