Promotion and relegation 2019/20 season

[kentblues]

AS far as I can see the rules of the EFL competition are based on a league where everyone plays each other once home and away. Promotions, regulations, playoffs are all decided on the basis of the end of season positions this having taken place.

There is no provision for what happens if the season is not completed (in hindsight a major flaw). So in simple terms the season completes only when all teams have played each other home and away, or it is simply not completed as per the rules of the competition. The latter = void.

The trouble the EFL finds itself in is in trying to retrospectively say what should have been in the rules. Too late. I believe the rules also state that the season must finish by a certain date?

Probably the safest legal option is voiding as the clubs sign up to the competition rules fair or not. Legal cases will be threatened but probably with very little chance of success.

The idea of promotions and no relegations is about annoying as few people as possible. It is the least worst of the options in terms of "fairness" but creates competition rules retrospectively that weren't there at the beginning and hence leaves them more open probably. If you are going to admit you can make the rules up as you go along its fair enough to have legal arguments about why you chose that one, verses that one, verses that one.

This is why they will want clubs to vote to approve the final solution by a significant margin to provide some cover (although unless unanimous I am not sure how meaningful that is in legal terms).

 

[camden shrimper]

I saw they are talking about making the games shorter too now.

They've got one chance to endear themselves back to fans with this and they are going to blow it.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

AS far as I can see the rules of the EFL competition are based on a league where everyone plays each other once home and away. Promotions, regulations, playoffs are all decided on the basis of the end of season positions this having taken place.

There is no provision for what happens if the season is not completed (in hindsight a major flaw). So in simple terms the season completes only when all teams have played each other home and away, or it is simply not completed as per the rules of the competition. The latter = void.

The trouble the EFL finds itself in is in trying to retrospectively say what should have been in the rules. Too late. I believe the rules also state that the season must finish by a certain date?

Probably the safest legal option is voiding as the clubs sign up to the competition rules fair or not. Legal cases will be threatened but probably with very little chance of success.

The idea of promotions and no relegations is about annoying as few people as possible. It is the least worst of the options in terms of "fairness" but creates competition rules retrospectively that weren't there at the beginning and hence leaves them more open probably. If you are going to admit you can make the rules up as you go along its fair enough to have legal arguments about why you chose that one, verses that one, verses that one.

This is why they will want clubs to vote to approve the final solution by a significant margin to provide some cover (although unless unanimous I am not sure how meaningful that is in legal terms).

Voiding is the sensible option but the most troublesome as i have said many times. I agree it should be.

Legal cases would have little chance unless they award something somewhere then it opens up different avenues etc, all a crock.

Overall for me, and I have said that here and in meetings that I have attended whilst working everyone needs to put their own agendas aside and look at what is best for the game and moving forward, sadly that doesn’t seem to be happening

 

[kentblues]

Voiding is the sensible option but the most troublesome as i have said many times. I agree it should be.

Legal cases would have little chance unless they award something somewhere then it opens up different avenues etc, all a crock.

Overall for me, and io Haver said that here and in meetings that I have attended whilst working everyone needs to put their own agendas aside and look at what is best for the game and moving forward, sadly that doesn’t seem to be happening

Indeed- my leaning has been to the promotions with no relegation scenario as it just seemed the fairest way out of the mess. But if it is truly about the integrity of the game then that is only preserved by sticking to the competition rules which means doing what the FA have done and void the season. Still think the former is where we are headed- especially if the Prem does try and finish as it looks increasingly like that will only be if relegation is taken off the table.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Indeed- my leaning has been to the promotions with no relegation scenario as it just seemed the fairest way out of the mess. But if it is truly about the integrity of the game then that is only preserved by sticking to the competition rules which means doing what the FA have done and void the season. Still think the former is where we are headed- especially if the Prem does try and finish as it looks increasingly like that will only be if relegation is taken off the table.

Agree.

the last point is one i was making people should put agendas aside, relegation is a point in hand, if the EPL finishes then relegation and promotion go hand in hand for me.

Ther is a team in the prem at a meeting I have been to which basically said we wont agree to anything unless you give us in writing we will not be relegated, the shock around the table was incredible

 

[Medway Blue]

Premier League: Gordon Taylor raises possibility of shorter halves for season resumption

Premier League have said the idea is not under consideration

www.skysports.com

This is getting more fanciful and ridiculous by the day.

This weapons-grade throbber pontificates about “sporting integrity” whilst pushing for a resumption with no fans, at neutral venues, with squads weaker than the first three quarters of the season due to contracts expiring, and with fundamental rules of the game such as number of subs and lengths of halves changed part way through a season.

An absolute farce. If any competition is completed in that way then it’ll be an even bigger **** stain on sporting integrity and on the record books than it would be if it was declared null-and-void.

 

[kentblues]

Agree.

the last point is one i was making people should put agendas aside, relegation is a point in hand, if the EPL finishes then relegation and promotion go hand in hand for me.

Ther is a team in the prem at a meeting I have been to which basically said we wont agree to anything unless you give us in writing we will not be relegated, the shock around the table was incredible

Problem is if it goes to a vote apparently there are 6-7 teams who will only vote to finish the season as planned with neutral ground etc. etc. if there are no relegations. They have a number of points- if you had more home than away games left you are disdvantaged, dependent on who your home and away games were supposed to be against you could be disadvantaged, if squads change post June 30 dependent on who you are playing who could be disadvantaged and so on.

If 7 vote only to continue if no relegation then its that or void probably as the EPL would not have 2/3 support.

If say 4 voted only to finish if no relegation say then the EPL would be continuing almost with the opening arguments of an almost certain legal case(s) having been made- and probably the clubs cases will have been enhanced by the fact the arguments were made clear and ignored.

If EPL does finish it will be without relegation most likely- which then makes promotions & no relegations likely down the leagues. If EPL void then again thats what the EFL do- I suspect EFL will simply follow the EPL lead (other than route to finishing games that would be impossible at EFL level) and hence will just wait until its clear.

BTW the only shock around that table should have been that people were shocked. They really must live in a bubble..

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

I think things may be clearer in a weeks time with the government guidelines on getting the country back to a semblance of normality.

If the PL and EFL continue to pontificate after that, then they truly are imbeciles.

 

[Jay_SUFC]

According to Rick Parry, the EFL needs to be concluded by the end of July, but he then mentions 1500 players out of contract at the end of June. Therefore how are games going to be played in July!!! Surely the conclusion date has to be the end of June.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

Best idea for EFL is to promote clubs in their 3 division and no relegation, plus to promote Barrow to take Bury place.

 

[kentblues]

And so now...

Rick Parry: English Football League clubs face '£200m hole' by September

English Football League chairman Rick Parry says the season needs to be concluded before 31 July and that clubs face a "£200m hole".

www.bbc.co.uk

EFL chairman Rick Parry tells DCMS hearing:
- Season "must end" by 31st July.
- Clubs heading for "cash hole" of £200m by end of Sep.
- Says there would be 'outrage' if no clubs promoted from the Championship.
- Hopes to play games on the 71 grounds, rather than neutral venues.

What was interesting is that he mentions in the scheme of things lost TV money for EFL is not that big an issue. Indeed his primary concern and threat was around if Championship Clubs are not promoted (always look after the big boys first being an ongoing approach). His anti-relegation from Prem statement is primarily because that would stop promotions from the Championship- of course the Prem can take that problem alway be have no relegations but allowing the promotions.

The must be over by 31st seems to be reliant on the fantasy that because players will get paid to end of July if they are released end June at the end of their contracts they will play. This like his original fantasy about automatic extensions is likely to have an unwelcome collision with reality.

Taking about collisions with reality- suggesting that the EFL could finish playing at the clubs grounds when this has been ruled out as being possible for the EPL? Classic case of because no-one in the EFL will support neutral grounds we will just pretend its not necessary for us (because we are very special..).

Really one big holding statement but reading between the lines he's saying:
- Please Prem finish the season then you have said we will get more money
- I will not pass on what we have so far to use as threat to keep clubs in line
- You must allow promotions from the Championship else I will get sued to death
- We can't possibly do neutral grounds so I will pretend we can finish at the clubs ground until you are sorted
- Because I have said it 56 days to finish the season and you need more time I will pretend the players will play out of contract for an extra month because they will be getting the extra months salary they were entitled to and going to get anyway (its never going to happen so we dont have to worry about injuries etc and insurance)

 

[kentblues]

I saw they are talking about making the games shorter too now.

They've got one chance to endear themselves back to fans with this and they are going to blow it.

Or more precisely halves shorter. So the games shorter- although this assumes the PFA know that 2 halves make a whole (which is in fact very doubtful). You couldn't make it up..

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

On what basis would the top 2 be promoted from the Championship? Leeds are serial chokers, absolutely no guarantee either team would’ve ended top 2. I don’t think that’s fair, but then I don’t like Leeds!

 

[Evening Echo]

PROFESSIONAL Footballers' Association chief executive Gordon Taylor has raised the possibility that halves may be shorter than 45 minutes as discussions continue about the Premier League's return.

More...

 

[kentblues]

On what basis would the top 2 be promoted from the Championship? Leeds are serial chokers, absolutely no guarantee either team would’ve ended top 2. I don’t think that’s fair, but then I don’t like Leeds!

If they need to promote (and of all the financial implications re court cases this is where 95% of the EFL liability lies) then they have choice

Promote top two automatically
Have one leg games at neutral venue for the playoff sides- semi and final all on free to view.

Still an absolute mess- so play off sides will say we would have made automatics. Some clubs outside playoff will say we would have made playoffs.

Or promote the top 3 with no games. Parry seems very keen on promoting 3 teams. The first option if achievable probably least worst?

 

[RobM]

How about this as an idea.

Take the points per game over the last 5 games.
Add a factor of 1.2 for the home team, 0.8 for the away team then rationalise to 3.

Bear with me, a hypothetical example. Just to keep numbers simple.

Let's say Southend have 7 points in the last 5 games = 1.4 points per game. Home so *1.2 = 1.68.
Sunderland have 12 in their last five so 2.4 ppg *0.8 = 1.92

Total = 1.68+ 1.92 = 3.6, rationalised to 3 means Southend would get (1.68/3.6)*3 = 1.4, Sunderland 1.6.

Not perfect, but best I can think of!

Obviously apply that to all games.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Why? Players fitness levels having dipped during the lockdown?

 

[camden shrimper]

We all know what will happen - the Prem will pull up the drawbridge, play out the season with no relegation and the EFL will hold off on making any decisions wanting the crumbs of promotion which won't be dished out and we will then void the seasons of all bar the Prem having faffed around for ages and painted ourselves into a corner.

 

[Hawkwell Blue]

Or more precisely halves shorter. So the games shorter- although this assumes the PFA know that 2 halves make a whole (which is in fact very doubtful). You couldn't make it up..

First goal wins, that could make games very short.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

No wonder he's a Marmite PFA chief.
In effect, he's saying: forget the integrity; laws and mores of football - any old thing will do.
By the way, note downpage his claim: '
"It's so important that we've now got a globally-leading testing capability, more than 100,000 tests a day capacity.
"Really, really important that we've got that in place now.'
Yeah?
Last time I looked the govt had dipped well below 100k, and depending on your political persuasion, they never reached it in the first place.