Not being paid

[wildheart]

Martin Peters & Sir Geoff Hurst we’re both selling insurance in the mid 1980’s!

 

[Mick]

I played against Del Pringle & Neil Foster at Unigate, not sure whether they were Milkman or not?

Neil Foster spent most of his winters touring or having operations, not delivering milk !

 

[Mick]

I played against Del Pringle & Neil Foster at Unigate, not sure whether they were Milkman or not?

Interesting (to cricket followers) Pringle fact. His first class batting average was 28.26. His first class bowling average was 28.26.

(Don't see him as a milkman either!)

 

[Mr Browns Ghost]

Graham gooch and richard cadette fitted my mum and dads conservatory back in the 80’s, and Andy Rogers and Brian Hardy built my aunts fitted wardrobes

 

[GBJ]

So if we don't get planning then has it been worth it for Ron?

Well that depends....

How much of Ron’s own money has gone into the pot?

How much has he taken back?

Are Ron & Mrs. Ron, still claiming a five-figure wage?

Are the debts liable to SUFC, or Ron personally?

More to the point, who are the debts owed to?

Are the debts secured against RH/FF/B&L, and if so, how much?

Honestly, I don’t think we’ll ever know the true answers to those questions. As you said, we can only speculate.

Will it have been worth it? I’m not sure. Have any of his companies been worth it, seeing as they’re all in the same loss-making boat, as SUFC?

One thing I forgot to mention earlier about developers and maybe Ron would do this if he had known he would still be here 22 years later.

Some buy a site way below market value because the council will not allow you to develop it, historic or landmark building. Perhaps it is used by the local football team.

Then they run the business down and when it goes bust they apply for planing. The council still say no......So you have a number of fires on the premises, 3 in the Queens hotel, 2 in the Esplanade. Throw in some squatters and fly tipping and before you know it, the council cave in under pressure from angry residents and grant planning.

Ron should have done that 20 years ago. He would ave saved £17m, probably nearer £20m by now and could be on his yacht in the Caribbean instead of suffering Tranmere with the rest of us.

P.s....About 25 years back, I was offered £1000 to burn an empty building down by someone who couldn't get planning.... I declined the offer.

Yep totally agree, it would have been easier for him to liquidate the club.

But, could he have afforded the month-long holidays, the cars & the house during that time of running the clock down?

 

[GBJ]

Although and again being pedantic all of that £17m is owed intercompany to Ron and will be written off if the developments go ahead- now I know, I know...but we live in a World where millions believe in the "sunlit uplands" and what the Daily Mail prints and I see no reason why my blind optimism should be any less valid..

If Ron is the sole creditor, why not just write the debt off now..... ya know, becuase he loves the club.

Shame Ron doesn’t share your sense of blind optimism, in getting the FF move off the ground

 

[BriggBlue]

Whilst this is no small part Ron's fault lets not kid ourselves that we are a special case, most L1, L2 and championship clubs are about a season away from going under and that's because everyone is chasing the promised land of the premiership and limitless riches, yet we as fans implore that we spend ever more money that none of the clubs can really afford on ever more inflated players wages in the hope that we might make it up another level. On this forum we have people complaining that we haven't spent money we don't have or want contracts paying off so we can spend yet more money chasing the dream. But if Ron turned around and said we won't sign anyone because we simply can't afford it then he'd by lynched, he can't win. no small part of that is on him but we as fans also need to realise we need to manage our expectations.

 

[Richard Hearn]

Well, as a fan since the 1960s I don't ever want to get to the Premiershite, if that helps take some of the pressure off.

 

[mfurok]

I can certainly recall seeing Billy Best,John Mckinven,Sammy Macmillan and also John Kurila and Peter Watson round our family house in Westcliff talking with my late father (who was a builder and property developer) about doing some summer work with him.

......and there was me thinking that they only came round to join our Subbuteo League......

 

[flangejackrabbit]

Whilst this is no small part Ron's fault lets not kid ourselves that we are a special case, most L1, L2 and championship clubs are about a season away from going under and that's because everyone is chasing the promised land of the premiership and limitless riches, yet we as fans implore that we spend ever more money that none of the clubs can really afford on ever more inflated players wages in the hope that we might make it up another level. On this forum we have people complaining that we haven't spent money we don't have or want contracts paying off so we can spend yet more money chasing the dream. But if Ron turned around and said we won't sign anyone because we simply can't afford it then he'd by lynched, he can't win. no small part of that is on him but we as fans also need to realise we need to manage our expectations.

This is extremely true and football at this level is in general not hugely sustainable without someone who is able to keep significant cash reserves available. Something will have to break soon, not just for us but in the whole of L1 and L2

 

[Strykr]

Who said it was the lesser earners ?
You would be surprised

I thought id read that somewhere, maybe im wrong.

 

[Blueronron]

As of today there are players who have still not been paid and many club workers still not received a penny
I’m on the understanding just a couple of the 7 players have been paid yesterday

 

[GBJ]

As of today there are players who have still not been paid and many club workers still not received a penny
I’m on the understanding just a couple of the 7 players have been paid yesterday

Embargo it is then.

So much for the idea that Ron has paid them all, out of his own pocket. Imagine believing that

 

[Cricko]

As of today there are players who have still not been paid and many club workers still not received a penny
I’m on the understanding just a couple of the 7 players have been paid yesterday

It does not come as a shock at all, I just feel sorry for all those that have not had what is owed especially at this time of year when outgoings are above normal.

Embargo it is then.

So much for the idea that Ron has paid them all, out of his own pocket. Imagine believing that

If true and I have no reason to disbelieve Blueronron then what was printed in The Echo was a blatant lie.

 

[rigsby]

I wonder if Saturdays game will go ahead?

 

[GBJ]

I wonder if Saturdays game will go ahead?

Ron’s emailed the FL telling them we’re forfeiting the rest of the season, and he’s going on another extended holiday?

If true and I have no reason to disbelieve Blueronron then what was printed in The Echo was a blatant lie.

Well, that would make a change

 

[Firestorm]

Well that depends....



Are the debts liable to SUFC, or Ron personally?


More to the point, who are the debts owed to?

Are the debts secured against RH/FF/B&L, and if so, how much?

SUFC owe the money to other companies in the Group SEL, MD etc etc, those companies have borrowed the money against their assets (the Ground, and other pockets of land around the place)

I think that If RM was to wind the club up, then the club debts would be defaulted , and the asset side of the deal in the Group companies accounts would be null, thus leaving those companies insolvent and they would , in turn fold , this would then be replicated for any other intercompany loans within the RM/ MD "empire" bringing the whole lot down .
Any loans within the MD group secured against RMs private assets would impact on RM and any income he draws from anywhere in the group would go too. Any assets would be sold to by the insolvency firm to limit the liabilities. I would imagine he would not be bankrupt , but he would be seriously compromised .

There are just two outstanding charges on the Companies house web site
A 2007 rent deposit deed and a 1999 Debenture to SEL

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00089767/charges

I haven't looked at the other Group companies yet.

 

[Firestorm]

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/Ip8g-RPGBn5ez9E-XwY1J2y2NGM/appointments

Companies with Ron listed


Roots Hall Ltd appear to have borrowed from a company called Topland Jupiter and several Charges to Citizen housing

As do SEL Ltd

Martin Dawn PLC have outstanding charges to Redrow homes and McClaren construction

Citizen Housing x 3 is not a RM company, but its run by his son Jack
Although Citizen housing LLP is owned by two companies Lenrose Housing (a Jack Martin Company) and Allied Housing

Elounda LLP (another JM company ) appear to have borrowed from a company called Topland Jupiter and have a charge to Citizen housing

 

[ESG]

......and there was me thinking that they only came round to join our Subbuteo League......

Subbuteo League....happy days.....a certain AndyT ran our one

 

[Cricko]

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/Ip8g-RPGBn5ez9E-XwY1J2y2NGM/appointments

Companies with Ron listed


Roots Hall Ltd appear to have borrowed from a company called Topland Jupiter and several Charges to Citizen housing

As do SEL Ltd

Martin Dawn PLC have outstanding charges to Redrow homes and McClaren construction

Citizen Housing x 3 is not a RM company, but its run by his son Jack
Although Citizen housing LLP is owned by two companies Lenrose Housing (a Jack Martin Company) and Allied Housing

Elounda LLP (another JM company ) appear to have borrowed from a company called Topland Jupiter and have a charge to Citizen housing

After only having a 10 minute scan through, it all makes horrendous reading and that is just for those companies that are alive rather than dormant with debts.

Topland are based in The British Virgin Islands. surprise surprise, but are massive,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topland_Group