New hattrick season

[* ORM *]

Well that's my season well and truly screwed. only drew away to second from bottom yesterday. Another one of the top 4 lost but I'm now 5 pts behind top. it is conceivable that this could change next week and he could lose with me to play the week after. If results go the wrong way it will be time to trim the wage bill and write off the season.

Reading the forums and looking at Altid I think I'm placing too much emphasis on skill rather than experience. $till determined to get promoted with 541

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Well that's my season well and truly screwed. only drew away to second from bottom yesterday. Another one of the top 4 lost but I'm now 5 pts behind top. it is conceivable that this could change next week and he could lose with me to play the week after. If results go the wrong way it will be time to trim the wage bill and write off the season.

Reading the forums and looking at Altid I think I'm placing too much emphasis on skill rather than experience. $till determined to get promoted with 541

I'm tempted to try defending as my next training area. How do you play 5-4-1?

I'm intrigued by the tactical possibilities of playing 5-4-1 and am contemplating defence as a future training strategy. My current thinking is for 2 wingers in the wing-back role played attacking. In addition I'd like one, maybe 2 IMs with defending as an offensive central defenders. I suspect you'd need to load your wings to ensure enough attack, so it would then be 2 IMs and 2 wingers (ensuring your wingers have PM, which mine do), but with the possibility of going 3 IMs and pressing for the games you don't think you can win. You've got the possibility of playing normally, counter-attack and pressing as all very viable tactical options making you dangerously unpredictable.

 

[MrB]

Lost to the top team 1-0, my E-T striker had a chance to equalise right at the end too. Roll on next season.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I think there maybe a tactical advantage in deliberating finishing lower this season, as they are going to introduce the more advanced supporter mood formula next year. I'm not sure if they are going to backdate this and look how long you've been in the division for. It could therefore be to your advantage to finish lower and dampen expectation.

Well that's my excuse for seemingly finishing 3rd and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Hopefully this fellow will outdo your £668,000:

Phil Nash [playerid=189893282]
17 years and 3 days, passable form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is balanced and honest.
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities.

Next birthday: 07/05/2008
Nationality: England
Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 750
Wage: 380 £/week

Stamina: weak Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: inadequate
Winger: inadequate Defending: excellent
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: weak

He's about to be listed.

£748,000, with about 5 hours left.

I've already made more from the academy than I ever did in the old system!


ps Has SZ ever had a full international?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

£748,000, with about 5 hours left.

I've already made more from the academy than I ever did in the old system!

ps Has SZ ever had a full international?

Nope... not me.

:(

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Current bids for Southend-United

Players Highest bid
Selling
Phil Nash
Original club
22/01/2008 at 17.53
Original club (%):2%
excl. total fees (%):7%
849 333 £
(806 867 £)
Total income 849 333 £

Currently going to Holland, to a club with an excellent trainer.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Nope... not me.

:(

Well I now have an England international.

Charles Rosewell has just been called up by ville.


He's celebrating by scoring twice for the reserves tonight.

I haven't felt this proud since Sir Chrissy Powell made his England debut.

 

[* ORM *]

I'm tempted to try defending as my next training area. How do you play 5-4-1?

I'm intrigued by the tactical possibilities of playing 5-4-1 and am contemplating defence as a future training strategy. My current thinking is for 2 wingers in the wing-back role played attacking. In addition I'd like one, maybe 2 IMs with defending as an offensive central defenders. I suspect you'd need to load your wings to ensure enough attack, so it would then be 2 IMs and 2 wingers (ensuring your wingers have PM, which mine do), but with the possibility of going 3 IMs and pressing for the games you don't think you can win. You've got the possibility of playing normally, counter-attack and pressing as all very viable tactical options making you dangerously unpredictable.

Hmmmmmmm Sorry YB - didn't spot this - you'll probably need to do some research elsewhere because though I've trained defence from the start and virtually always 5-4-1 in all games, every season has been an improvement on, or no worse than, the previous season. It's only in the last few weeks with results not going the way I expected (I top the stars in my division according to Altid) that I've had an issue and need to think carefully about how I approach next season.

Because I've always been on the upward slope I've really not been experimenting with tactics and orders too much - in fact the whole of last season I played 5-4-1 with every player's order set to normal finishing second. I expected to go one step further this season having massively ugpraded the midfield and inflated the wage bill from about £130 to £190 but it hasn't worked.

The two WBs are bought as WBs rather than wingers (i.e. passable/solid wing with min solid defending). I've always played two wingers. I've never been sucked into the I must win midfield debate and never bothered with hatstats. My philosophy has always been to try to ensure my defence was much stronger than their attack and if I knew I was going to get totally overrun in midfield to use pressing sometimes with some shock results. I don't think I've ever used CA in a competitive match.

Training 10 defenders with 11 on the books to cover injuries and suspensions has worked a treat for me. If all 11 are fit I rotate the player not being trained. I buy my trainees at 17 with min solid defending and at least one decent secondary, the wing-backs are also pass-solid wing and min solid defending. They are always trained to 21 or 22 and usually to supernat when sold to reinvest in a new trainee and a player to strengthen the squad with a min 2 skill uptick. Until the age changes I had two in two out each season (and three for one season in 5).

So there you have it - very uninspiring and unimaginative but it has worked for me.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Hmmmmmmm Sorry YB - didn't spot this - you'll probably need to do some research elsewhere because though I've trained defence from the start and virtually always 5-4-1 in all games, every season has been an improvement on, or no worse than, the previous season. It's only in the last few weeks with results not going the way I expected (I top the stars in my division according to Altid) that I've had an issue and need to think carefully about how I approach next season.

Because I've always been on the upward slope I've really not been experimenting with tactics and orders too much - in fact the whole of last season I played 5-4-1 with every player's order set to normal finishing second. I expected to go one step further this season having massively ugpraded the midfield and inflated the wage bill from about £130 to £190 but it hasn't worked.

The two WBs are bought as WBs rather than wingers (i.e. passable/solid wing with min solid defending). I've always played two wingers. I've never been sucked into the I must win midfield debate and never bothered with hatstats. My philosophy has always been to try to ensure my defence was much stronger than their attack and if I knew I was going to get totally overrun in midfield to use pressing sometimes with some shock results. I don't think I've ever used CA in a competitive match.

Training 10 defenders with 11 on the books to cover injuries and suspensions has worked a treat for me. If all 11 are fit I rotate the player not being trained. I buy my trainees at 17 with min solid defending and at least one decent secondary, the wing-backs are also pass-solid wing and min solid defending. They are always trained to 21 or 22 and usually to supernat when sold to reinvest in a new trainee and a player to strengthen the squad with a min 2 skill uptick. Until the age changes I had two in two out each season (and three for one season in 5).

So there you have it - very uninspiring and unimaginative but it has worked for me.

Well ville-man wants me to train wing for the time being so no defence training for the time being, although I might have to switch to it some time to get Rosewell's defending up.

I'd strongly recommend that if you continue to train defence you change your training strategy. With 5 defenders, you should be looking to push at least one or two forward from time to time, whether it be as offensive wing-backs or offensive central defenders. There is no need for 11 trainees, and alternating them is just inefficient. I'd have thought 6 defenders is sufficient, with the remainder being midfielders and wingers whose secondaries you were topping up (and your keeper in friendlies). Training up to 21 or 22 only gets you so far. Anyone wanting to push on should be looking to train older players, either topping up their primaries, or working on their secondaries. My youngest trainees are 23, but they are all already trained up in their primary. I couldn't be competitive with 19 years olds in my team.

Tactical flexiblity is important as well. If you are playing defensively and going for the clean sheet and giving up attack, your WB and IMs should presumably all be set defensively. Counter-attack is also a crucial weapon if you aren't going to try and win the midfield.

You might be able to get so far with those tactics (I'd guess the ceiling would be somewhere around 2nd in an avearge div.VI, in an easy VI you might make it up to V but come straight back down), but to compete in a V and then a IV you'll need to adapt. With a £190K wage-bill I'm 3rd in my IV and will next season be looking to win it.

I'd really recommend 5 new trainees: 2 young world class (or thereabouts) wingers with say passable defence, 2 young brilliant-supernatural IM with again inadequate/passable defending and a young keeper. Start off with them playing in their ordinary positions in the league and then switch them to defence for the friendly/cup. In 2 seasons time you'll have a team that can get up from division and then probably survive in V.

I reckon that lot would cost about £8m, but you could fund by selling 6 of your trainees (when they pop) then 2 wingers and 2 IMs.

I'd be interested to hear B's thoughts on this approach as he trained defence for a while.

 

[* ORM *]

Interesting - I thought GNH trained defence moons ago but could be wrong. These tactics got me out of a tough Div 6 and into a medium Div 5 where I've comfortably held my own. My philosophy has always been to strenthen midfield and attack with trainee sales. The one area of weakness I'd agree with you on is the age and experience factor. Buying in pretrained players in non-defence skills with some defence skills and training them up may be the way to go. I've seen on other threads that the boost to midfield of and OCD doesn't outweigh the loss to defence. Have played offensive WB in the distant past but not a good idea if opps wingers are good. Over to you B

 

[MrB]

When I trained defence it was never really to improve the team, more to build a batch of trainees who I could then sell and completely revamp the team. YB is on the right lines, a purely defensive team will never be good enough to get out of V and if it does it will be murdered in IV as the differential in midfield will be too high. Once my defenders were trained up to a point I sold some, bought some wingers with PM and trained those for a while to get my wing backs up to a decent standard. I then sold off the entire team and have begun training wing with all sorts of players with decent primary skills in defence, midfield and attack.

My success while defence training was all about counter attack (I nearly nicked a point against my 300+ hatstat opponent on Sunday using it). There’s a big stigma about needing passing to counter attack but while it helps, if your defenders are good enough you’ll get a decent rating anyway and if you have half decent attack ratings you’ll get a lot more success against teams with better midfields. It’s certainly more effective than pressing anyway. You also need a decent set piece taker for it.

If you’re going to go forward now you need to get those multiskills going. Forget about training one skill for profit, while it is still possible, the returns on single skill players are too low now to make the training worthwhile. My trainees are:

Wing/Defence:
Formidable/Outstanding - 21
Solid/Brilliant - 20
Passable/Outstanding - 20

Wing/PM:
Outstanding/Magnificent - 23
Outstanding/Excellent – 21
Excellent/Titanic – 25
Excellent/Brilliant – 20

Wing/Scoring:
Outstanding/Magnificent – 21

Training wing attacks which allows you to train up to 10 players equally (I don’t like standard wing training as the wing backs suffer). I only train 9 as I play 3-5-2 in the league so I’m looking to add another striker with wing at some stage to take advantage of the final training slot. I’ll take all these guys up to 25/26 in wing plus keep pushing their passing as well.

As I mentioned a while ago, if ORM intends on sticking with defence training only, I’d recommend sticking maybe 3 young keepers in there as I think defensive keepers could be a lucrative market in the future.

 

[* ORM *]

Hmmm have just reread the YB + MrB comments again. Massive food for thought and a radical overhaul needed for next season methinks.

Bugger !

i may come back on this in a few weeks

 

[GNH]

I did train defence many seasons ago and am currently doing the same with a load of youngsters whilst i think of a plan of action to take my team forward in the future. I took a bit of a gamble buying young excellent/formidable wingers with poor defending hopeing to take advantage of the quicker training time for low levels of skill but it seems to take just as long as ever with even wretched -> poor taking about 5 weeks so I think i'll lose out. I also have an 18 yr old solid keeper who now has inadequate defending so he's coming along nicely for the future. If I managed to sell all my trainees for half decent fees I could be looking at a pot of about £16m to spend when i can figure out what to do with it!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Am 1-0 down away from home at half-time against the 8th best team in England in hattrick

In case you think last week's rating was a fluke, they are 9th in team value according to hatstats!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Now that is interesting.... I've equalised with a 'normal goal'. Was losing midfield - he had 56%, but my joker is that I'm playing creatively with 3 head specialists, an unpredictable and 2 powerful players in the rain, against his 4 technicals and 2 quicks. There has yet to be a special event chance reported.......

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Was 2-1 up with 2 minutes left. They had their powerful 7.5* IM sent off and I still was due a couple of special events - what could go wrong?

Well, my England international got crocked, they equalised with a free-kick, then went 3-2 up when I suffered a technical v head special event - despite it being rainy and then they added a 4th goal and I had one of my defenders booked, putting him out of next week's game.

It couldn't have been much worse. Fortunately my international is only bruised but playing so it'll probably only cost me £20,000.

 

[* ORM *]

Well the research is ongoing but the cull has started. A supernat IM sold with two titanic IMs and one titanic wing on the list. Will need to replace two IMs and one wing but WC and possibly English targetted.

For training I'll end up with a mixture of pure defensive trainees and crosstraining others with decent wing, att or IM skills. Plan to introduce gradually as each current defender pops to be sold and replaced. Will keep core two or three for the time being to ensure defence is as tight at possible. Looks like a 2 season plan for promotion to me.

 

[* ORM *]

And with 4th place min assured I have plenty of time to avoid panic buying in time for next season.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Well the research is ongoing but the cull has started. A supernat IM sold with two titanic IMs and one titanic wing on the list. Will need to replace two IMs and one wing but WC and possibly English targetted.

For training I'll end up with a mixture of pure defensive trainees and crosstraining others with decent wing, att or IM skills. Plan to introduce gradually as each current defender pops to be sold and replaced. Will keep core two or three for the time being to ensure defence is as tight at possible. Looks like a 2 season plan for promotion to me.

Sounds a sensible plan.

If you start out with a mix of trainees, you can slowly phase them out so that in a couple of seasons time you'll have no mono-skill defenders. If you are waiting for players still to pop, it allows you time to bring in the right replacements.

My squad is entirely English and I've got to the stage where I only search for English players. It takes a lot longer to find the right player, but I've a long term plan in place and can afford to bide my time until the right player shows up. The main positive is that it allows me to keep my wages down. A saving of 20% in wages is a substantial one, when wages is your main expense.