A Bit of Fun Luke McCormick

[Beefy]

And I ask all of you out there, how many people do you know who have driven when over the limit or under the influence of drugs? There are plenty that do, even if it's only by having that second pint. I'd trust to Sturrock's judgement on this if and when the time comes, no point arguing about something that's entirely gossip at this moment in time.

Exactly. I don't drive but most of my friends who drive have definitely been over the limit behind the wheel at point or other and I'm sure that most drivers have at one time. They shouldn't do it, they're idiots for having done so but essentially that they haven't killed two kids and Luke McCormick has can surely only be put down to blind luck.

But I wouldn't want him here purely from a football perspective. As a goalkeeper I don't see how he can concentrate 100% on the game when fans behind him up and down the country will constantly be reminding him what he has done. Hughes can get away with it playing upfront but I don't think a goalkeeper will be able to.

 

[TrueBlue]

He killed a couple of kids whilst p****ed in his car. Absolutly no way would I want him here.

Yeah becuase he got up that moring with the view to doing it!!

Bore off

 

[Norwichshrimper]

This thread is exactly why Shrimperzone should be more careful about the topics that are debated, because I honestly don't think some people on here have the maturity to handle it.

LM did a very silly thing, which I am sure many people on here, hand on heart, have also done but got away with. He didn't get away with it, and the consequences were very, very serious, not least of course for the two people whose lives his carelessness inadvertently ended. If we are to 'label' him, he was a drink-driver - far less likely than most of us to ever drink then drive again after what he has experienced. He was NOT a 'child killer' (jeepers) in the sense that that inflammatory label suggests, which should be reserved for the Ian Huntleys of this world.

The society we are all part of deems that what he did means he has to pay a price, and that price is determined to be a custodial sentence. Once he's served that sentence, he's a free man. He's paid his dues. He's done his time.

Once he's done his time, why should we make him pay for it again, over and over? Just as he has to accept his punishment, we have to accept him when he's served it. I could understand friends and family of the two people whose lives he accidentally ended might find it emotionally hard to forgive him, but it's frankly wrong of us not to do so.

If Luggy wants to sign him, it's not up to us to judge him in any respect other than as a footballer. If he's up to the grade, then use him. If his own personal emotional scars from his experiences compromise his ability to do his job as a footballer, then drop him (and help him deal with them, like we are doing with Bil, like we did With Ryan Hall last season - and look at the dividends he's paying off now).

But don't refuse to employ him as a footballer, or to accept him as a person, simply because he's done time. That's just letting society down and contributing to an inevitable downward spiral for someone who could otherwise still make a positive contribution to this world. God knows, he's probably up for turning things around more than anyone.

Thats about as close to spot on as it gets.

Exactly. I don't drive but most of my friends who drive have definitely been over the limit behind the wheel at point or other and I'm sure that most drivers have at one time. They shouldn't do it, they're idiots for having done so but essentially that they haven't killed two kids and Luke McCormick has can surely only be put down to blind luck.

But I wouldn't want him here purely from a football perspective. As a goalkeeper I don't see how he can concentrate 100% on the game when fans behind him up and down the country will constantly be reminding him what he has done. Hughes can get away with it playing upfront but I don't think a goalkeeper will be able to.

And so is that - though all I would say if he is strong enough to block it out, and retains the ability he once had (which are big ifs). Then all well and good..we shouldn't just assume he won't.

 

[Blue_Shrimper1959]

Regardless of what he has done, based on footballing reasons, do we actually need him? Morris is performing well enough and we have a bright prospect in Bentley.

We seem to be linked with every ex-player Sturrock has ever managed, and I believe I'm right in saying, with the exception of Timlin on loan, Sturrock hasn't signed an ex player since the start of last season when we were desperate for players

 

[Firestorm]

Which of the following decisions are more serious

"I am still drunk and very tired shall I drive my car ?"

"He comes the cross shall I catch or punch ?"



If he can't get the big decisions right what are the chances with the small ones ....

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

I'm sure he's remorseful, so why not. He's done his time and so why ruin another persons career/life, let him pay back to society by what he does best

This........................

 

[southendkid]

This thread is exactly why Shrimperzone should be more careful about the topics that are debated, because I honestly don't think some people on here have the maturity to handle it.LM did a very silly thing, which I am sure many people on here, hand on heart, have also done but got away with. He didn't get away with it, and the consequences were very, very serious, not least of course for the two people whose lives his carelessness inadvertently ended. If we are to 'label' him, he was a drink-driver - far less likely than most of us to ever drink then drive again after what he has experienced. He was NOT a 'child killer' (jeepers) in the sense that that inflammatory label suggests, which should be reserved for the Ian Huntleys of this world. The society we are all part of deems that what he did means he has to pay a price, and that price is determined to be a custodial sentence. Once he's served that sentence, he's a free man. He's paid his dues. He's done his time.Once he's done his time, why should we make him pay for it again, over and over? Just as he has to accept his punishment, we have to accept him when he's served it. I could understand friends and family of the two people whose lives he accidentally ended might find it emotionally hard to forgive him, but it's frankly wrong of us not to do so.If Luggy wants to sign him, it's not up to us to judge him in any respect other than as a footballer. If he's up to the grade, then use him. If his own personal emotional scars from his experiences compromise his ability to do his job as a footballer, then drop him (and help him deal with them, like we are doing with Bil, like we did With Ryan Hall last season - and look at the dividends he's paying off now). But don't refuse to employ him as a footballer, or to accept him as a person, simply because he's done time. That's just letting society down and contributing to an inevitable downward spiral for someone who could otherwise still make a positive contribution to this world. God knows, he's probably up for turning things around more than anyone.

best post on this thread, he's done his time let him get on with his life, he's made a very bad mistake and he probably will never drive drunk again, if you can honesty say you know noone that's driven drunk then well done, otherwise your being a bit hypocritical. Also to those saying it's a family club, surely that means we should be teaching kids that people make mistakes, not to turn your back on people that have done time? If Ryan hall is here, who attacked someone with intent then why is it bad to have someone who never set out to hurt anyone? I'd class Hall as having committed a worse crime than Luke

 

[Fish]

Which of the following decisions are more serious

"I am still drunk and very tired shall I drive my car ?"

"He comes the cross shall I catch or punch ?"



If he can't get the big decisions right what are the chances with the small ones ....

Pretty sure that every goalkeeper that has ever been on the books of a professional club has probably got decision 2 wrong at least once in their life. That's how they learn.

Chances are that if we did sign LM he's unlikely to be so tired or so drunk that it clouds his decision as to whether to come for a cross or punch it during a competitive football match.

All the more so for the 'bigger' decisions, don't you think? I'd actually rather be in the hands of someone who has learned the hard way than someone who's not got first hand experience of the consequences of getting a decision wrong.

 

[Angell Delight]

best post on this thread, he's done his time let him get on with his life, he's made a very bad mistake and he probably will ever drive drunk again, if you can honesty say you know Boone that's driven drunk then well done, otherwise your being a bit hypocritical. Also to those saying it's a family club, surely that means we should be teaching kids that people make mistakes, not to turn your back on people that have done time? If Ryan hall is here, who attacked someone with intent then why is it bad to have someone who never set out to hurt anyone? I'd class Hall as having committed a worse crime than Luke

Wholly disagree. I can forgive Hall for what he did as it was racially provoked and in my opinion if someone goes out of their way to racially abuse another person then they shouldn't be surprised if it turns into a physical confrontation - what Hall did wasn't right but I can understand it to an extent.

In terms of McCormick why am I reading about his incident being an "accident?" I'm sorry but if you willingly get into a car knowing you are over the limit and kill two people then that is no accident, it's manslaughter. Whether he consciously meant to do it is largely irrelevant, that decision to drive whilst drunk means it is no accident. As others above have said, Southend United is very much a family club and I don't want to have to listen to the taunts of opposition fans every time someone like Luke McCormick pulls on a Southend shirt. Continue your career if you like but I don't want it to be here, I don't care how good he is as a keeper.

And another thing, how do you think a lot of the current squad would feel (especially those with families of their own) if we were to sign a goalkeeper whose drunk and dangerous driving killed two young boys? Now that is bound to have a negative effect on team spirit...... :thumbdown:

 

[Napster]

I doubt he'll come here anyway. Morris is by far the better keeper.

 

[Beefy]

Wholly disagree. I can forgive Hall for what he did as it was racially provoked and in my opinion if someone goes out of their way to racially abuse another person then they shouldn't be surprised if it turns into a physical confrontation - what Hall did wasn't right but I can understand it to an extent.

In terms of McCormick why am I reading about his incident being an "accident?" I'm sorry but if you willingly get into a car knowing you are over the limit and kill two people then that is no accident, it's manslaughter. Whether he consciously meant to do it is largely irrelevant, that decision to drive whilst drunk means it is no accident. As others above have said, Southend United is very much a family club and I don't want to have to listen to the taunts of opposition fans every time someone like Luke McCormick pulls on a Southend shirt. Continue your career if you like but I don't want it to be here, I don't care how good he is as a keeper.

And another thing, how do you think a lot of the current squad would feel (especially those with families of their own) if we were to sign a goalkeeper whose drunk and dangerous driving killed two young boys? Now that is bound to have a negative effect on team spirit...... :thumbdown:

I don't know if it would necessarily have a bad effect on team spirit. I'd have thought that once they got to know him they'd realise that he's a bloke he made a terrible mistake. The thing that would be likely to cause problems with spirit would be one of the squad getting replaced (Morris) for no good reason.

Angell Delight - I trust you've never driven while drunk and have disowned all friends and family that you know have done.

 

[southendkid]

Wholly disagree. I can forgive Hall for what he did as it was racially provoked and in my opinion if someone goes out of their way to racially abuse another person then they shouldn't be surprised if it turns into a physical confrontation - what Hall did wasn't right but I can understand it to an extent.In terms of McCormick why am I reading about his incident being an "accident?" I'm sorry but if you willingly get into a car knowing you are over the limit and kill two people then that is no accident, it's manslaughter. Whether he consciously meant to do it is largely irrelevant, that decision to drive whilst drunk means it is no accident. As others above have said, Southend United is very much a family club and I don't want to have to listen to the taunts of opposition fans every time someone like Luke McCormick pulls on a Southend shirt. Continue your career if you like but I don't want it to be here, I don't care how good he is as a keeper. And another thing, how do you think a lot of the current squad would feel (especially those with families of their own) if we were to sign a goalkeeper whose drunk and dangerous driving killed two young boys? Now that is bound to have a negative effect on team spirit...... :thumbdown:

Because it is an accident, manslaughter can be an accident, that's why it's manslaughter and not murder, because you didn't set out with the intent to kill you just made a very stupid decision that had dire consequences. People drink drive all the time, if we are going to shun LM surely we have to shun every drink driver? After all they all had similar chances of killing someone while driving drunk so shouldn't we treat them all the same way?

 

[Angell Delight]

I don't know if it would necessarily have a bad effect on team spirit. I'd have thought that once they got to know him they'd realise that he's a bloke he made a terrible mistake. The thing that would be likely to cause problems with spirit would be one of the squad getting replaced (Morris) for no good reason.

Angell Delight - I trust you've never driven while drunk and have disowned all friends and family that you know have done.

Are you saying you have??! I can honestly say I have never driven a car after having a drink never mind being drunk! :stunned:

 

[Norwichshrimper]

Wholly disagree. I can forgive Hall for what he did as it was racially provoked and in my opinion if someone goes out of their way to racially abuse another person then they shouldn't be surprised if it turns into a physical confrontation - what Hall did wasn't right but I can understand it to an extent.

In terms of McCormick why am I reading about his incident being an "accident?" I'm sorry but if you willingly get into a car knowing you are over the limit and kill two people then that is no accident, it's manslaughter. Whether he consciously meant to do it is largely irrelevant, that decision to drive whilst drunk means it is no accident. As others above have said, Southend United is very much a family club and I don't want to have to listen to the taunts of opposition fans every time someone like Luke McCormick pulls on a Southend shirt. Continue your career if you like but I don't want it to be here, I don't care how good he is as a keeper.

And another thing, how do you think a lot of the current squad would feel (especially those with families of their own) if we were to sign a goalkeeper whose drunk and dangerous driving killed two young boys? Now that is bound to have a negative effect on team spirit...... :thumbdown:

Of course it's an accident. What LM failed to do (and has been/is being punished for failing to do) is take the necessary steps to reduce the chances of the accident happening (ie, not getting tanked up and driving home).

And I really can't understand your case for Hall. It looks incredibly two faced if you ask me. I wonder if you'd be so "understanding" if it wasn't one of our star players. I completely agree with what Southend Kid said, whilst you can't compare the outcome of the two cases, surely the intent makes Halls "crime" more serious than LM's from a moral point of view, and it's from a moral perspective that all the objections have come from.

 

[devonexile]

I agree entirely with Fish's comments and those of OBL. The lad did not set out to be a "child killer", he did a very stupid thing and drove a car over the limit. 999,999 times out of 1 million he would have got away with it, as I suspect some of the owners the sanctimonious, nose holding comments on here have done in times gone past. LM did not and he had that one in a millon accident with all its dreadful consequences.

But he did not run away from the scene (I seem to recall it was him that summoned the emergency services), he never attempted to excuse his actions and was filled with remorse from the outset, a fact acknowledged by the judge when he sent him down. LM's actions were stupid, juvenile, dangerous and resulted in a tragic outcome. But they were not pre-meditated or malevolent and having done his time he should be allowed to get on with his life, in or out of football.

I would certainly have no trouble with him playing for us, if PS thought him worth signing.

 

[Angell Delight]

Because it is an accident, manslaughter can be an accident, that's why it's manslaughter and not murder, because you didn't set out with the intent to kill you just made a very stupid decision that had dire consequences. People drink drive all the time, if we are going to shun LM surely we have to shun every drink driver? After all they all had similar chances of killing someone while driving drunk so shouldn't we treat them all the same way?

You won't change my mind on this one, his decision killed two innocent children and maimed their Dad. If he is sincerely remorseful then great and if he is brave enough to carry on his career despite the undoubted abuse he will receive from opposition fans (and being a goalkeeper it'll probably be worse than Lee Hughes due to his position) then that's fine and good luck to him. But I don't want it to be here, I don't want to listen to the boos and chanting from opposition fans for 90 minutes every time he puts on our shirt and quite frankly I don't want to be associated with a man whose awful decision resulted in the deaths of two innocent kids. It's just my preference, if other people don't agree then that's fine but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Are you saying you have??! I can honestly say I have never driven a car after having a drink never mind being drunk! :stunned:

What about the bit about disowning all friends and family that have done it?

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

No thanks.

I think it would be much harder for a goalkeeper to react to the constant abuse they would get compared to Hughes scoring goals to shut them up.

I don't want him at our club

 

[Angell Delight]

Well I'll be sincerely hoping this transfer doesn't happen, and if you read back through the 4 pages of this thread I'm certainly not the only one.

It's all conjecture though and has arisen from an unsubstantiated rumour on SZ - and let's face it most rumours on here never come to fruition. Here's hoping for a gurning pic of Morris on the OS before the season's end cos I'm quite sure we won't be taking on two experienced goalkeepers or it will hinder Bentley's development.

 

[Angell Delight]

What about the bit about disowning all friends and family that have done it?

I can't speak for anyone else's families or friends but each and every time I go out the people I'm with who are driving don't even have one alcoholic drink.....not one.....they are always on softies. You may find that hard to believe but it's true and I know that because I'm usually the one controlling the whip. I can't speak for the irresponsibility of other people's friends and family but in my case that's 100% accurate.