Leaders Debate - Who won?

[Cricko]

Ah, I see the mysterious editing has reared it's head again. Whats good for the goose obviously isn't for the gander it would seem.

It is surely far better to have an actual debate than slip into the insults on a person to person basis....If you have a debatable corner to stand you would not need to bring insults into it.. as your truth would stand it's own ground.

We will ALWAYS delete personal insults.

 

[Benfleet A1]

It is surely far better to have an actual debate than slip into the insults on a person to person basis....If you have a debatable corner to stand you would not need to bring insults into it.. as your truth would stand it's own ground.

We will ALWAYS delete personal insults.

Debate goes back and forth wouldn't you agree, not back and .......... And posting endless links to either The Guardian or BBC isn't debate either. Pot and kettle John, pot and kettle.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Never judge a person by their avator Barners,if that was the case I would take you as coloured.

Ha! You could certainly assume I like Miles Davis (though if you look on my settings page) you'll see a photo there of Son House, who was also black.:smiles:

 

[Cricko]

Debate goes back and forth wouldn't you agree, not back and .......... And posting endless links to either The Guardian or BBC isn't debate either. Pot and kettle John, pot and kettle.

I haven't seen Barna do many links these days without comments...He knows it is not the way forward...But abuse of others just because it goes against your views is as bad.

 

[Benfleet A1]

I haven't seen Barna do many links these days without comments...He knows it is not the way forward...But abuse of others just because it goes against your views is as bad.

I'm sure I'll be reminding you of the above statement in the very near future.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

How about we use the money on our own patients regardless of illness?

If paying for foreigners medical bills is important to you AAS, why not set up a charity and donate money directly into it?

The discussion was two people saying I was lying about what Farage said. So I quoted him directly to show I wasn't lying, then I asked you both to tell me what you thought the conclusion to his comments were - neither of you have done that so I guess you both owe me an apology.

 

[Benfleet A1]

The discussion was two people saying I was lying about what Farage said. So I quoted him directly to show I wasn't lying, then I asked you both to tell me what you thought the conclusion to his comments were - neither of you have done that so I guess you both owe me an apology.

It was quite clear what he said and my conclusion is he is putting the people of the UK before health tourists who attempt to gain free healthcare when they are not entitled to it. Nothing about repatriation, nothing about letting them die in the streets.

So there's no confusion, here it is.

[video=youtube;r1tHvf3lBB4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1tHvf3lBB4[/video]

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It was quite clear what he said and my conclusion is he is putting the people of the UK before health tourists who attempt to gain free healthcare when they are not entitled to it. Nothing about repatriation, nothing about letting them die in the streets.

So there's no confusion, here it is.

[video=youtube;r1tHvf3lBB4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1tHvf3lBB4[/video]

Clearly there is confusion because he did not mention health tourism he spoke of people living in this country who whilst living in this country were diagnosed with HIV. If he doesn't want to treat the non Brits who are already here then what does he want to happen to them?
I offered up the only two options in his scenario that I could think of and two of his supporters didn't like that. Whilst I am waiting for there apologies maybe you can tell me what you think Farage would do with the British residents who are not British that are diagnosed with HIV because at the moment it seems far from clear.

 

[callan]

The discussion was two people saying I was lying about what Farage said. So I quoted him directly to show I wasn't lying, then I asked you both to tell me what you thought the conclusion to his comments were - neither of you have done that so I guess you both owe me an apology.

You did lie...so there wont be an apology.

And nowhere in the statement you posted did Farage mention repatriation.
Again your hatred of another party gets the better of you.

Will you be setting up a charity and paying into it for overseas hiv patients?....you forgot to answer this.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Clearly there is confusion because he did not mention health tourism he spoke of people living in this country who whilst living in this country were diagnosed with HIV. If he doesn't want to treat the non Brits who are already here then what does he want to happen to them?
I offered up the only two options in his scenario that I could think of and two of his supporters didn't like that. Whilst I am waiting for there apologies maybe you can tell me what you think Farage would do with the British residents who are not British that are diagnosed with HIV because at the moment it seems far from clear.

What are you talking about? The first four words out of his mouth are 'I mentioned health tourism' how much clearer can that possibly be?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You did lie...so there wont be an apology.

And nowhere in the statement you posted did Farage mention repatriation.
Again your hatred of another party gets the better of you.

Will you be setting up a charity and paying into it for overseas hiv patients?....you forgot to answer this.

Each month I donate to Oxfam, Amnesty International, Banardos, Searchlight, Marie Curie, GOSH, UNICEF and the Big Issue. I also in the past independently did a lot of fund raising for Rape Crisis. I don't really get why you are suggesting that I set up a new charity but I can reassure you I hand over funds to lots of causes and that when I was using my own organisational skills to raise funds for RC I wasn't really that good at it so I don't think creating a new charity is in my remit.


I did not lie about what Farage said. You have not come up with any conclusion to the figures he quoted - he said there are 4,200 foreign nationals that are in the UK diagnoses with HIV each year. What does he want to do with them?


I guessed at his conclusion and you did not like that. What was his conclusion as far as you are concerned - what happens to the 4,200?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

What are you talking about? The first four words out of his mouth are 'I mentioned health tourism' how much clearer can that possibly be?

Genial Harry Grout - I dug out a quote that started after he said the words 'health tourism' and when you put up the youtube link I was out and couldn't view it but that starts earlier than the quote I read so yes he did say 'health tourism' at the start of his evil blame the victim tirade so I apologise to you GHG.

His intention was to be headline grabbing controversial and in that it has worked.

 

[Hotman]

Each month I donate to Oxfam, Amnesty International, Banardos, Searchlight, Marie Curie, GOSH, UNICEF and the Big Issue. I also in the past independently did a lot of fund raising for Rape Crisis. I don't really get why you are suggesting that I set up a new charity but I can reassure you I hand over funds to lots of causes and that when I was using my own organisational skills to raise funds for RC I wasn't really that good at it so I don't think creating a new charity is in my remit.

But ***, buying your public sector cord trousers from charity shops, and some supplementary Guardian reading from a tramp, is hardly donating to charity. I don't have the stats, in fact no-one would have, but I'd be pretty sure that those on the right donate far more than those on the left - and don't expect anything in return (particularly not ****** trousers that some other scab has worn).

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

But ***, buying your public sector cord trousers from charity shops, and some supplementary Guardian reading from a tramp, is hardly donating to charity. I don't have the stats, in fact no-one would have, but I'd be pretty sure that those on the right donate far more than those on the left - and don't expect anything in return (particularly not ****** trousers that some other scab has worn).

I'm talking about a monthly cash donation that goes directly from my bank to their's.
Though I do have a nice pair of Paul Smith cords that were from an Oxfam shop but I don't work in the public sector and I'm not a knob muncher (this is a reference to previous quotes in case to some that seems like an odd thing to say).
I wasn't bragging I was answering the question that Callan has asked me twice.

Thanks for your input, it has been invaluable.

 

[Cricko]

But ***, buying your public sector cord trousers from charity shops, and some supplementary Guardian reading from a tramp, is hardly donating to charity. I don't have the stats, in fact no-one would have, but I'd be pretty sure that those on the right donate far more than those on the left - and don't expect anything in return (particularly not ****** trousers that some other scab has worn).

Wow! I am pretty sure those on the right have far more money than those on the left... Isn't that the plan?

What exactly is a scab in your opinion?

 

[Benfleet A1]

Genial Harry Grout - I dug out a quote that started after he said the words 'health tourism' and when you put up the youtube link I was out and couldn't view it but that starts earlier than the quote I read so yes he did say 'health tourism' at the start of his evil blame the victim tirade so I apologise to you GHG.

His intention was to be headline grabbing controversial and in that it has worked.

Apology not required but non the less excepted although I don't agree with it being an evil tirade, more a unpleasant and inconvenient truth.

 

[callan]

Each month I donate to Oxfam, Amnesty International, Banardos, Searchlight, Marie Curie, GOSH, UNICEF and the Big Issue. I also in the past independently did a lot of fund raising for Rape Crisis. I don't really get why you are suggesting that I set up a new charity but I can reassure you I hand over funds to lots of causes and that when I was using my own organisational skills to raise funds for RC I wasn't really that good at it so I don't think creating a new charity is in my remit.


I did not lie about what Farage said. You have not come up with any conclusion to the figures he quoted - he said there are 4,200 foreign nationals that are in the UK diagnoses with HIV each year. What does he want to do with them?


I guessed at his conclusion and you did not like that. What was his conclusion as far as you are concerned - what happens to the 4,200?

So you are guessing now...earlier it was a conclusion.

I have already concluded that 2 billion a year according to government stats is spent on health tourism....like Farage I would rather that money be spent on British patients.

If people want to spend money on treating overseas visitors that's fine, do it via charities.

As for the 4200 that are here from abroad, he doesn't want to treat them from NHS funds....according to your party the conservatives are killing the NHS....it cant be that bad if we can afford 2 billion can it?

 

[Cricko]

Of course the older Brits who are retiring abroad cost nothing to overseas Medical services.. it is the same. We are no angels here.

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...-and-exports-creaky-old-ones-balance-ailments

Lookie a Linky^^^

 

[Benfleet A1]

Of course the older Brits who are retiring abroad cost nothing to overseas Medical services.. it is the same. We are no angels here.

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...-and-exports-creaky-old-ones-balance-ailments

Lookie a Linky^^^

Isn't that up to those countries to clamp down on the abuse of their health systems? And something else you fail to notice(since you seem to be in a wind-up sort of mood tonight) is those Brits are spread out over several European countries, not concentrated in just one.

 

[superblue24]

Of course the older Brits who are retiring abroad cost nothing to overseas Medical services.. it is the same. We are no angels here.

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...-and-exports-creaky-old-ones-balance-ailments

Lookie a Linky^^^

Nonsense. I was faced with a rather large A & E bill when I got into an accident in Greece a few years ago. My retired Mum moved to France a few years ago and they also receive nothing of the kind.