Leaders Debate - Who won?

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Health insurance !

The NHS has become a free for all yet is creaking under the pressure and something must happen to stop the insanity of it all.

Farage this morning said "how can the NHS refuse drug treatment for breast cancer patients because it's classified as to expensive yet hand out free HIV treatment to anyone in the world with each patient costing 24k"..That cannot be right.

He also said we give a billion each month for overseas aid...This is our money yet the establishment decide to fritter it away in such a ridiculous fashion.

This is classic Farage - the same way that he used poster indicating the entire population of Europe was going to turn up in the UK and the rest of Europe would be empty. We do not hand out free HIV treatment to anyone in the world and if he looked at how many people in the world have HIV and are not being treated then he would see how ridiculous that statement is. For some reason he never uses the actual figures.

Overseas aid is largely tied in with ensuring friendly nations stay friendly and in creating trade opportunities. That didn't fit his scaremongering - world peace and trade aren't in his remit.

 

[callan]

excuse me? Why come over all Daily Mail about this - you know I never said that.

Oh I'm sorry I thought it was ok to do this....after all you were more than happy to this with Farage.

How are you coping with the other questions?

Out of interest how many people from abroad with life threatening illnesses do you want to treat with money that is supposed to be for the British?


5000?...10,000...100,000....more?

Where does the British tax payers responsibility end?

Should our hospitals just open up to everyone, and provide free treatment for the whole of the world?

If as Labour say the tories are killing the NHS, how can we afford this?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not since early 90's darling. The clue is in the name - net migration... http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/latest-immigration-statistics

Actually,there are over 2 million Brits. living in other EU countries-2010 figures-a similar amount to the number of EU citizens living in the UK.

https://euobserver.com/social/123066


(Btw,SB 24 if your mother is legally resident in France, I suggest she appiles for a "carte vitale" asap,which will give her the same healthcare cover as any French citizen).

 

[rigsby]

The discussion was two people saying I was lying about what Farage said. So I quoted him directly to show I wasn't lying, then I asked you both to tell me what you thought the conclusion to his comments were - neither of you have done that so I guess you both owe me an apology.

I gave you a clear answer on post 113.

I also asked you a simple question and like all slimy politicians you have completely ignored.

Just to cap it all hen we have definite proof that you LIED. What do you do... claim it was mistake... How about it was an oversight, or your its your secretary's fault and lessons have been learnt.

This is not the first time that you have avoided an uncomfortable question or made unfounded assumptions against the likes of me. [ Spread Eagle incident and the UKIP thread].

So its me than now looks forward to your apology

 

[Benfleet A1]

Actually,there are over 2 million Brits. living in other EU countries-2010 figures-a similar amount to the number of EU citizens living in the UK.

https://euobserver.com/social/123066


(Btw,SB 24 if your mother is legally resident in France, I suggest she appiles for a "carte vitale" asap,which will give her the same healthcare cover as any French citizen).

Again, not concentrated in one country but spread over several.

 

[Hotman]

Again, not concentrated in one country but spread over several.

And conveniently forgetting the *net* migration to the UK over the last 5 years, each a 6 figure number of people.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Again, not concentrated in one country but spread over several.

And conveniently forgetting the *net* migration to the UK over the last 5 years, each a 6 figure number of people.

The point is that there are over 2 million Brits in other EU countries and just over 2.3 million EU citizens in the UK.

Of these, over 1 million Brits are resident in Spain-many of them retired and thus a drain on Spanish medical resources.That's not anything you regularly hear about in the Spanish media-contrast that with UKIP's NHS twaddle.

 

[Benfleet A1]

The point is that there are over 2 million Brits in other EU countries and just over 2.3 million EU citizens in the UK.

Of these, over 1 million Brits are resident in Spain-many of them retired and thus a drain on Spanish medical resources.That's not anything you regularly hear about in the Spanish media-contrast that with UKIP's NHS twaddle.

Yes, well that's not quite true anymore is it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/10834116/NHS-rejects-expats-returning-from-Spain.html

And the real point is that those 2 million Brits are spread all over Europe, not concentrated in one singular country. And your figures are wrong as well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10142162/Retiring-Britons-fall-out-of-love-with-Spain-and-France.html

 

[davew]

this is not a case of winning, its just a debate not the actual gen election, they can all talk the talk but can they w the walk.

For me if I lived in Scotland or Wales I would vote for their nat party's, I do not, so I will hold fire to see my local list of candidates, there is no way I will vote for any of the main party's incl UKIP . Please all use your vote otherwise don't complain after

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yes, well that's not quite true anymore is it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/10834116/NHS-rejects-expats-returning-from-Spain.html

And the real point is that those 2 million Brits are spread all over Europe, not concentrated in one singular country. And your figures are wrong as well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10142162/Retiring-Britons-fall-out-of-love-with-Spain-and-France.html

They're not wrong at all-though maybe a little out of date.I saw Caroline Flint quoting similar figures on the Daily Politics earlier this year ie 2 million Brits living in other EU countries and approx 2.3 EU nationals living in the UK.The figures are broadly similar-what's so difficult to understand about that?

The fact that Brits are spread out over various EU countries is irrelevant-as I've already pointed out there are over 1 million Brits. living in Spain.
-
The articles you quote are talking about the problems early retirees have in claiming medical cover abroad ie health tourism! Or the fact that a weaker pound against the Euro makes it more difficult to live abroad on a UK pension.Tough!

 

[Benfleet A1]

They're not wrong at all-though maybe a little out of date.I saw Caroline Flint quoting similar figures on the Daily Politics earlier this year ie 2 million Brits living in other EU countries and approx 2.3 EU nationals living in the UK.The figures are broadly similar-what's so difficult to understand about that?

The articles you quote are talking about the problems early retirees have in claiming medical cover abroad ie health tourism! Or the fact that a weaker pound against the Euro makes it more difficult to live abroad on a UK pension.Tough!

Exactly, isn't that the whole argument? Health tourism costs the host nation millions, regardless of where it is or who is doing it.

[/B]The Foreign Office estimates that 800,000 British nationals live all or part of the year in Spain. Estimates on residency vary from 250,000 to 400,000. Anecdotal reports suggest a growing number are preparing to return home.[/B]

Ahem, 800,000 isn't quite a million is it, not even just over it.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Exactly, isn't that the whole argument? Health tourism costs the host nation millions, regardless of where it is or who is doing it.

[/B]The Foreign Office estimates that 800,000 British nationals live all or part of the year in Spain. Estimates on residency vary from 250,000 to 400,000. Anecdotal reports suggest a growing number are preparing to return home.[/B]

Ahem, 800,000 isn't quite a million is it, not even just over it.

Frankly, I don't see why Brits (or any other EU nationals) who retire early and move abroad should receive free medical cover before the official age of retirement.The 1 million figure that I quoted (as you well know) comes from an article in reply to Hitman.

(I haven't bothered to register with the British consulate in Barcelona, so I'm probably not part of the official figures either, though I do have a resident's permit and pay monthly ss contributions).

https://euobserver.com/social/123066

 

[Benfleet A1]

Frankly, I don't see why Brits (or any other EU nationals) who retire early and move abroad should receive free medical cover before the official age of retirement.The 1 million figure that I quoted (as you well know) comes from an article in reply to Hitman.

(I haven't bothered to regster with the British consulate in Barcelona, so I'm probably not part of the official figures though I do have a resident's permit and pay montly ss contributions).

Where as my figures are quoted from The Foreign Office.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Where as my figures are quoted from The Foreign Office.

And mine are from the EU!

 

[OldBlueLady]

Where as my figures are quoted from The Foreign Office.

And mine are from the EU!

With respect Barna, I know which set I'm more likely to believe!

 

[Benfleet A1]

And mine are from the EU!

Yes, that most trustworthy of organizations that haven't had their accounts signed for the last quarter of a century.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

With respect Barna, I know which set I'm more likely to believe!

Yes, that most trustworthy of organizations that haven't had their accounts signed for the last quarter of a century.

Frankly,I have no real idea but it could well be that the reason for the discrepancy betwen the figures is this:-

1 million (EU figures) the number of British residents in Spain.

800,000 (FO figures) the number of Brits. legally resident in Spain (ie with 200,000 sin papeles or illegal residents).

A ratio of 1:5 or 20% sounds about right for that.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

Frankly,I have no real idea but it could well be that the reason for the discrepancy betwen the figures is this:-

1 million (EU figures) the number of British residents in Spain.

800,000 (FO figures) the number of Brits. legally resident in Spain (ie with 200,000 sin papeles or illegal residents).

A ratio of 1:5 or 20% sounds about right for that.

Surely any Brit living in Spain is there legally?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Surely any Brit living in Spain is there legally?

Only for 90 days as a tourist.After that you would have to register with your local authority before you can apply for a resident's permit.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I gave you a clear answer on post 113.

I also asked you a simple question and like all slimy politicians you have completely ignored.

Just to cap it all hen we have definite proof that you LIED. What do you do... claim it was mistake... How about it was an oversight, or your its your secretary's fault and lessons have been learnt.

This is not the first time that you have avoided an uncomfortable question or made unfounded assumptions against the likes of me. [ Spread Eagle incident and the UKIP thread].

So its me than now looks forward to your apology

Writing LIED in capitals doesn't make it any more relevant than the last time you wrote it. The situation is unchanged - I quoted Farage and then asked what the conclusion was to his outburst. I made suggestions as to what his conclusions would be and I put question marks to make it clear that I was asking a question rather than making a statement of fact. Read back - it's true.

it might be a bit boring for others to retred old threads but if you feel a disservice has been done feel free to point out specifics.