Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Tangled up in Blue]

I was always lead to believe that using facts and backing them up with evidence made one pompus on this part of the board. Or that's what I was told when I unhelpfully blew some racist immigration crap out of the water thanks to the ONS.

So, can we please stick to making stuff up to suit our arguments??? It saves us all falling out over who is more qualified in ******** than the other.

However linking to wikipedia doesn't necceassarily relate to "providing evidence". ;)

I coudn't agree more.

In fact,I'd argue it's not always the facts themselves that are important, so much as the interpretation put on them.

CF Alan Bennett's excellent The History Boys.

 

[manor15]

The Times now reporting that he was "the lover" of Diane Abbott for a brief period in the 1970s in their search for a story which is almost as irrelevant as Ed Miliband nearly going on a date with Stephanie Flanders at university.

 

[mrsblue]

The Times now reporting that he was "the lover" of Diane Abbott for a brief period in the 1970s in their search for a story which is almost as irrelevant as Ed Miliband nearly going on a date with Stephanie Flanders at university.

Jumping into Abbott's bones is too much.

Corbyn out !:winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Meanwhile, here's a JC policy announcement.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34272334

Kippers won't be happy.:smiles:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The Times now reporting that he was "the lover" of Diane Abbott for a brief period in the 1970s in their search for a story which is almost as irrelevant as Ed Miliband nearly going on a date with Stephanie Flanders at university.

I'd say Di was an 8 then and Jez a 3, now it's the other way round.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Grrr, If You Tolerate This, Then Your Thread Will Be Next......:smile:

The sleeve of which ties in with the Spanish Civil war theme (and there is a great David Holmes remix). Very off topic tho...

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Meanwhile, here's a JC policy announcement.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34272334

Kippers won't be happy.:smiles:

What a thoroughly reasonable man

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

What a thoroughly reasonable man

This is my truth.Tell me yours.:smile:

 

[MK Shrimper]

This is my truth.Tell me yours.:smile:

Has this become a Manic Street Preachers thread?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Has this become a Manic Street Preachers thread?

Why not? Though I prefer to think of This is my truth as Ny Bevan's line originally.

 

[Benfleet A1]

30 years a MP and he doesn't know the details of the Privy Council? I think you lie Mr Corbyn.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

30 years a MP and he doesn't know the details of the Privy Council? I think you lie Mr Corbyn.

Let's say he looked like he was being a bit economical with the truth.There was certainly a glimmer in his eye.:smiles:

 

[rigsby]

His army's march through Spain during the Civil War was horrifying. The Spanish Holocaust by the afore mentioned Paul Preston is essential reading. Not if you're in need of cheering up though.

I've no doubt it was not much fun if you were one of the many left wing groups fighting Franco in the 30's. Franco did however dislike the Nazi views about religion and his beloved Catholic church. The Spanish foreign legion could only fight the Russians and not the Western allies.

He never sent any Jews to Germany, or refused shelter to Jews or escaped POW's who had made it to Spain. He could have easily marched into Gibralter in 1940 or allowed German air bases in southern Spain which may have cost us the war in those early days.

You could say there are right and left wing Facists. Question is how different would Europe look if Spain had been part of the Eastern block during the cold war.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I've no doubt it was not much fun if you were one of the many left wing groups fighting Franco in the 30's. Franco did however dislike the Nazi views about religion and his beloved Catholic church. The Spanish foreign legion could only fight the Russians and not the Western allies.

He never sent any Jews to Germany, or refused shelter to Jews or escaped POW's who had made it to Spain. He could have easily marched into Gibralter in 1940 or allowed German air bases in southern Spain which may have cost us the war in those early days.

You could say there are right and left wing Facists. Question is how different would Europe look if Spain had been part of the Eastern block during the cold war.

Moroccan troops attached to Franco's forces were let loose on the Spanish people as "shock troops".

See the excellent Paul Preston book that Uncle Leo mentions for a first rate account of the widespread fear, havoc and mayhem that this caused.

"In 1936 the Spanish "Army of Africa" (totaling 30,000 in the Legion and Moroccan Regulares regiments) were made part of the rebellion led by General Franco against the Republican Government in Madrid. In the crucial initial phase of the Spanish Civil War",

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulares

BTW,the "many left-wing groups fighting Franco in the 30's" that you mention, were fighting to uphold a democratically elected Republic.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I've no doubt it was not much fun if you were one of the many left wing groups fighting Franco in the 30's. Franco did however dislike the Nazi views about religion and his beloved Catholic church. The Spanish foreign legion could only fight the Russians and not the Western allies.

He never sent any Jews to Germany, or refused shelter to Jews or escaped POW's who had made it to Spain. He could have easily marched into Gibralter in 1940 or allowed German air bases in southern Spain which may have cost us the war in those early days.

You could say there are right and left wing Facists. Question is how different would Europe look if Spain had been part of the Eastern block during the cold war.

One didn't necessarily have to be actively fighting Franco to full the feel force of his troops. People found to have voted for a socialist mayor would be rounded up and shot. There is at least one account of a young boy named Ivan (as was popular with Communist sympathisers of the time) being held by his ankles and swung against a wall until he was killed.

Not saying you're wrong about Gibraltar or indeed his approach to Jewish refugees, but the horror of what Franco and his henchmen (Juan Yague and Emilio Mola being two definitely worthy of their place in the pantheon of all-time *******s) perpetrated cannot be swept away quietly.

 

[callan]

Meanwhile, here's a JC policy announcement.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34272334

Kippers won't be happy.:smiles:

I don't really see that they would care less, personally I wouldn't want him anywhere near the out campaign.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Let's say he looked like he was being a bit economical with the truth.There was certainly a glimmer in his eye.:smiles:

No, let's say he was lying through his teeth.

 

[rigsby]

The original question...... was Franco worse than Stalin. So can any of you commies give me any evidence that Stalin was better for his people than Franco was for his.

No need for silly posts about your qualifications or incorrect facts. Just some adult views please.

 

[rigsby]

Moroccan troops attached to Franco's forces were let loose on the Spanish people as "shock troops".

See the excellent Paul Preston book that Uncle Leo mentions for a first rate account of the widespread fear, havoc and mayhem that this caused.

"In 1936 the Spanish "Army of Africa" (totaling 30,000 in the Legion and Moroccan Regulares regiments) were made part of the rebellion led by General Franco against the Republican Government in Madrid. In the crucial initial phase of the Spanish Civil War",

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulares

BTW,the "many left-wing groups fighting Franco in the 30's" that you mention, were fighting to uphold a democratically elected Republic.

Many were fighting more for the communist ideal and not against Franco, there is a difference. Some returned from Spain and refused to fight Hitler because that would have been for king and country. You mentioned Orwell, when he joined the Home Guard he wanted to call it the Peoples Revolutionary Militia. Very strange for the time and reminds me of Monty Pythons 'Judean people's front' sketch.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The original question...... was Franco worse than Stalin. So can any of you commies give me any evidence that Stalin was better for his people than Franco was for his.

No need for silly posts about your qualifications or incorrect facts. Just some adult views please.

Is one mass murderer better than another? Strange question.