Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Pubey]

And a good one he already is. The original point was whether he had effectively ruled himself out of staying in the shadow cabinet under Corbyn and according to various newspaper articles, the answer is yes.

The only quote attributed to him is that 'he doubted he'd be called to serve' (in JC's shadow cabinet). The rest are just rumours and conjecture. There's not statement from anyone that DJ turned down an offer.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yes.... foreign fighters who followed the Bolshevik cause. Which was at the time to end a Christian dominated Europe.

By the way your sneering, I'm more qualified than you, Marxist friend Tangled has once again made a fool of himself. Far from hating Franco the USA loved the fact that he was so anti communist. He was even offered the chance to join NATO.

The International Brigades were mainly aligned to CNT and POUM which were anarchist outfits not communists.
Hitler supplied Franco with equipment that was effectively a test run for WWII. Those that chose to go overseas and fight Fascists are being liked to IS terrorists, but when Mr Corbyn is told he is disrespecting those who fought fascists because he looks like he has borrowed Boris Johnson's tailor then....this is an odd thread.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Whether or not he sung to the national anthem is of absolutely no interest to me whatsoever FYI.

What gives you the right to speak on anyone's behalf in the way you do? I'm sure some people feel strongly about it and others don't. None of them need to have you talk up for them as to what is "of interest" to them.

Saying that Joe Public will get bored of the trivial headlines the newspapers are trotting out is probably the least controversial thing anyone has ever said. I'd suggest keeping your outrage back for when something outrageous happens. Just a suggestion though.

 

[mrsblue]

Saying that Joe Public will get bored of the trivial headlines the newspapers are trotting out is probably the least controversial thing anyone has ever said. I'd suggest keeping your outrage back for when something outrageous happens. Just a suggestion though.

I cannot wait when Corbyn supporters sing that famous footy song to him.


You don't know what your doing:hilarious:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm a great believer that history always repeats itself. As a young man your UIL goes of to Spain for his 'Jihad' but refuses to fight for the country he was born in. Now were in the world is that happening at the moment.

And I'm a great believer in Marx's dictum that history always repeats itself.The first time as tragedy,the second as farce.

Please don't put words into my mouth.I made it quite clear that I didn't know why my UIL didn't fight in WW2.As I'm sure you know, Bevin Boys were in reserved occupations.

Yes.... foreign fighters who followed the Bolshevik cause. Which was at the time to end a Christian dominated Europe.

By the way your sneering, I'm more qualified than you, Marxist friend Tangled has once again made a fool of himself. Far from hating Franco the USA loved the fact that he was so anti communist. He was even offered the chance to join NATO.

This is well-known.It's also true, as I said, that the US refused to consider Franco's Spain for Marshall Aid.

The International Brigades were mainly aligned to CNT and POUM which were anarchist outfits not communists.
Hitler supplied Franco with equipment that was effectively a test run for WWII. Those that chose to go overseas and fight Fascists are being liked to IS terrorists, but when Mr Corbyn is told he is disrespecting those who fought fascists because he looks like he has borrowed Boris Johnson's tailor then....this is an odd thread.

*** is quite right.It's also worth pointing out that POUM was,in fact, a Trotskyist organisation.Orwell, who joined up with them as an ILP member, writes a first hand account in Hommage to Catalonia of how his unit was disarmed at the front by Communist forces.Ken Loach dramatised the same incident in his Land and Freedom (Tierra y Libertad).

The idea that those who joined the International Brigades were somehow like IS, is an obscene travesty of the truth.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Of course, as an athesitic republican, why would he sing "God Save The Queen". He believes in neither.

But if he had sung, then the Mail and Sun and the rest of the scum would have branded him a hyprocrite.

So hey, Jezza, stick to your beliefs, don't pander to Murdoch and co....

What are your views of him now he's said (or at least his party has said for him) that he's going to sing the national anthem in future?

I think the disappointment maybe twofold, in that first he's failed to stick up for his beliefs at the very first hurdle and secondly that his inexperience has shown as he's been played so easily.

I was also disappointed that he wore a tie for PMQT today, but thought he otherwise did quite well in changing the tone of the debate.

 

[rigsby]

And I'm a great believer in Marx's dictum that history always repeats itself.The first time as tragedy,the second as farce.

Please don't put words into my mouth.I made it quite clear that I didn't know why my UIL didn't fight in WW2.As I'm sure you know, Bevin Boys were in reserved occupations.



This is well-known.It's also true, as I said, that the US refused to consider Franco's Spain for Marshall Aid.




*** is quite right.It's also worth pointing out that POUM was,in fact, a Trotskyist organisation.Orwell, who joined up with them as an ILP member, writes a first hand account in Hommage to Catalonia of how his unit was disarmed at the front by Communist forces.Ken Loach dramatised the same incident in his Land and Freedom (Tierra y Libertad).

The idea that those who joined the International Brigades were somehow like IS, is an obscene travesty of the truth.

Even if you occupation was reserved you could still join up. The Bevan boys only came into effect from 1943. Many miners had joined up over the previous 4 years and the country was struggling to produce enough coal.

Bevan boys were conscripted, some as young as 15, or conscientious objectors. They continued conscription into the mines for a number of years after the war.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Even if you occupation was reserved you could still join up. The Bevan boys only came into effect from 1943. Many miners had joined up over the previous 4 years and the country was struggling to produce enough coal.

Bevan boys were conscripted, some as young as 15, or conscientious objectors. They continued conscription into the mines for a number of years after the war.

And your point is what,exactly? :unsure:

 

[rigsby]

And your point is what,exactly? :unsure:

You insinuated that your UIL could not fight in WW2 because his occupation was reserved. Which of course is not true.

Despite your wonderful well documented history qualifications you often post incorrect or partial facts. As your obedient less qualified servant I'm am always pleased to correct you

 

[EastStandBlue]

And I'm a great believer in Marx's dictum that history always repeats itself.

Indeed. Died 132 years ago and still knew that BarnaBlue would get it wrong again.

 

[Lord Football]

What are your views of him now he's said (or at least his party has said for him) that he's going to sing the national anthem in future?

I think the disappointment maybe twofold, in that first he's failed to stick up for his beliefs at the very first hurdle and secondly that his inexperience has shown as he's been played so easily.

I was also disappointed that he wore a tie for PMQT today, but thought he otherwise did quite well in changing the tone of the debate.

As I was attempting to say, whether one signs a song about an imaginary being saving someone I don't believe to be relevant in the 21st Century is of little importance. In fact its not important.

I'd agree about the tone of PMQ, his tie was horrible, but he usually does wear one. I wore one today too. It was pink.

 

[superblue24]

You insinuated that your UIL could not fight in WW2 because his occupation was reserved. Which of course is not true.

Despite your wonderful well documented history qualifications you often post incorrect or partial facts. As your obedient less qualified servant I'm am always pleased to correct you

standard Barna

 

[rigsby]

Though I generally agreee with your comments about Labour's post '45 election victory,I get the impression that you didn't do too well in your GCE/CSE History "O" level exams.

(I got a Grade A in Social and Economic History and a Grade B in History,btw).

Not sure why my UIL went down the mines.Probably saw enough killing in Spain.(He died in a motercycle accident in the early 60's -some time before the use of crash helmets was compulsory).

I'm willing to conceed that Franco was more intelligent than he's usually given credit for.Not much else.Spain didn't benefit from Marshall aid, for example,as so much of Europe did, (not GB), precisely because under Franco, Spain was a right wing dictatorship and as such anathema to the Americans,though they established some air-bases here,which incidentally they still control today.Check out Peter Preston's excellent biography of him,btw.

While I'm in the mood to correct our smarter than the rest of us, Spanish history expert.

Marshall aid was an American finance package to help rebuild war torn Europe. Starting in 1948, It would be well over £100 billion in todays money.As the cold war had set in the USA had a great fear that the whole of Europe would end up communist. The idea was to rebuild and modernise industry etc.

The main recipients were the allies, but also West Germany and Italy benefited. Guess who got the most.....GB.


Spain were of course neutral in WW2 so just like Sweden or Switzerland....no war damage....no aid.
At the time, Spain under Franco were strongly anti-communist. This totally suited the US, who gave aid in other forms and allowed Spain to Join the UN.

Young people are often told its much easier to get a grade A now days. It would appear to have been much easier in the 70's I think.

 

[Firestorm]

While I'm in the mood to correct our smarter than the rest of us, Spanish history expert.

Marshall aid was an American finance package to help rebuild war torn Europe. Starting in 1948, It would be well over £100 billion in todays money.As the cold war had set in the USA had a great fear that the whole of Europe would end up communist. The idea was to rebuild and modernise industry etc.

The main recipients were the allies, but also West Germany and Italy benefited. Guess who got the most.....GB.


Spain were of course neutral in WW2 so just like Sweden or Switzerland....no war damage....no aid.
At the time, Spain under Franco were strongly anti-communist. This totally suited the US, who gave aid in other forms and allowed Spain to Join the UN.

Young people are often told its much easier to get a grade A now days. It would appear to have been much easier in the 70's I think.

Facts, now that's how to discuss things properly :thumbsup:, here is the wiki page for the Marshall plan, so that the statement can be substantiated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

heres a bit about the Marshall Plan and Spain

Large parts of the world devastated by World War II did not benefit from the Marshall Plan. The only major Western European nation excluded was Francisco Franco's Spain, which did not overtly participate in World War II. After the war, it pursued a policy of self-sufficiency, currency controls, and quotas, with little success. With the escalation of the Cold War, the United States reconsidered its position, and in 1951 embraced Spain as an ally, encouraged by Franco's aggressive anti-communist policies. Over the next decade, a considerable amount of American aid would go to Spain, but less than its neighbors had received under the Marshall Plan.[93]

GB only finished paying back the loan in 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4757181.stm

 

[MK Shrimper]

What has any of this got to do with Jeremy Corbyn? And I get accused of thread deviation!

 

[Lord Football]

Facts, now that's how to discuss things properly :thumbsup:, here is the wiki page for the Marshall plan, so that the statement can be substantiated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

I was always lead to believe that using facts and backing them up with evidence made one pompus on this part of the board. Or that's what I was told when I unhelpfully blew some racist immigration crap out of the water thanks to the ONS.

So, can we please stick to making stuff up to suit our arguments??? It saves us all falling out over who is more qualified in ******** than the other.

However linking to wikipedia doesn't necceassarily relate to "providing evidence". ;)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You insinuated that your UIL could not fight in WW2 because his occupation was reserved. Which of course is not true.

Despite your wonderful well documented history qualifications you often post incorrect or partial facts. As your obedient less qualified servant I'm am always pleased to correct you

Actually,I "insinuated" nothing.I merely speculated that it might have been the case.

The next time you "swallow " words from the dictionary,I'd suggest you check that you're using them correctly.

Indeed. Died 132 years ago and still knew that BarnaBlue would get it wrong again.

"History repeats ... first as tragedy, then as farce," is of course, a quotation from Marx's The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon published in 1852.

While I'm in the mood to correct our smarter than the rest of us, Spanish history expert.

Marshall aid was an American finance package to help rebuild war torn Europe. Starting in 1948, It would be well over £100 billion in todays money.As the cold war had set in the USA had a great fear that the whole of Europe would end up communist. The idea was to rebuild and modernise industry etc.

The main recipients were the allies, but also West Germany and Italy benefited. Guess who got the most.....GB.


Spain were of course neutral in WW2 so just like Sweden or Switzerland....no war damage....no aid.
At the time, Spain under Franco were strongly anti-communist. This totally suited the US, who gave aid in other forms and allowed Spain to Join the UN.

Young people are often told its much easier to get a grade A now days. It would appear to have been much easier in the 70's I think.

1968 if we're taking about "O" levels.

 

[Uncle Leo]

By todays standards yes. By 1930's dictator standards no. Even Tangled admits (begrudgingly) his beloved Stalin was far worse.

His army's march through Spain during the Civil War was horrifying. The Spanish Holocaust by the afore mentioned Paul Preston is essential reading. Not if you're in need of cheering up though.

 

[Uncle Leo]

What has any of this got to do with Jeremy Corbyn? And I get accused of thread deviation!

And rightly so.

Still, back on topic. Manhole covers eh? He's a strange cove that Corbyn but each to their own etc. etc.

 

[MK Shrimper]

And rightly so.

Still, back on topic. Manhole covers eh? He's a strange cove that Corbyn but each to their own etc. etc.

Grrr, If You Tolerate This, Then Your Thread Will Be Next......:smile: