Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[RHB]

So yes give me a Labour party that is close to its core values every time.

But surely any political party has to take on board the mood and attitudes of the country as a whole? I get the bit about being close to core values and that is great for traditional left wing labour voters. However, Not all of the floating electorate have such defined views, and if, as a political party aspiring for election, you ignore the broader voter, then surely inclusiveness doesn't exist. That was why new Labour was born if I remember correctly, and it caught the mood of the nation at the time and proved popular for years.

 

[callan]

But surely any political party has to take on board the mood and attitudes of the country as a whole? I get the bit about being close to core values and that is great for traditional left wing labour voters. However, Not all of the floating electorate have such defined views, and if, as a political party aspiring for election, you ignore the broader voter, then surely inclusiveness doesn't exist. That was why new Labour was born if I remember correctly, and it caught the mood of the nation at the time and proved popular for years.

You make some good points....certainly I would not propose to counter any argument that suggests New Labour didn't change to make it have a broader appeal to a wider range of the Electorate and in as much were successful....however I rather think they were as much new tory as new Labour.

One criticism of New Labour is that they distanced themselves over time from the electorate, becoming elitist and arrogant.

Why should Labours core principles only be for those that are left wing?

Are Freedom, community, democracy and equality only desirable to left wingers?

Labour can and should stand for all of these things, instead of selling out to big business, and the corporate dream that is the EU.

In changing to New Labour they alienated segments of their support, and once something new come along in the shape of the SNP and UKIP, those segments found new homes.

New Labour (as in the Blair years) thinking won't win them back, some traditional sincere back to basics Labour thinking might.

 

[RHB]

You make some good points....certainly I would not propose to counter any argument that suggests New Labour didn't change to make it have a broader appeal to a wider range of the Electorate and in as much were successful....however I rather think they were as much new tory as new Labour.

One criticism of New Labour is that they distanced themselves over time from the electorate, becoming elitist and arrogant.

Why should Labours core principles only be for those that are left wing?

Are Freedom, community, democracy and equality only desirable to left wingers?

Labour can and should stand for all of these things, instead of selling out to big business, and the corporate dream that is the EU.

In changing to New Labour they alienated segments of their support, and once something new come along in the shape of the SNP and UKIP, those segments found new homes.

New Labour (as in the Blair years) thinking won't win them back, some traditional sincere back to basics Labour thinking might.

Good stuff, and I agree with much of it. I come from a long line of Labour Party activists and as a kid I would watch my dad doing the door-to-door canvassing etc in a predominately Tory area and working all sorts of hours after work for GE candidates. I thought at the time, 'why don't you change sides Dad and be on a winner?' But I was a kid and didn't fully understand it all. Now, many years on, I do understand, but I'm pretty sure that those early experiences were what, subconsciously, made me embrace new Labour. I agree that it probably wouldn't work now, but the prospect of JC's vision of the Labour Party doesn't quite do it for me. I think he will now win, and I shall have to examine my conscience come voting time.

 

[Neil_F]

I am on unfamiliar ground now as I have to defend Labours record in government!

What I would say is that the post world war 2 Labour government that gave us the NHS, Social welfare + Justice , Universties opened up, was a lot closer to the core values of Labour, than the Blair / Brown years.

I also believe that the deficit was Larger post ww2 than what we currently have.

Arguably "justice" was established under Henry II,social welfare in the early 1910s and universities in the 15th century. As for economics, I think you'd have more credibility if you said, "I don't care about economics."

I honestly do not understand why anyone would vote for a leader of their party they didn't think could win a general election. I really don't understand why anyone would vote for a leader advocating a juvenile hard left platform that has failed repeatedly around the world, tme after time. Having said that, each to their own and I wish your man well.

 

[callan]

Arguably "justice" was established under Henry II,social welfare in the early 1910s and universities in the 15th century. As for economics, I think you'd have more credibility if you said, "I don't care about economics."

I honestly do not understand why anyone would vote for a leader of their party they didn't think could win a general election. I really don't understand why anyone would vote for a leader advocating a juvenile hard left platform that has failed repeatedly around the world, tme after time. Having said that, each to their own and I wish your man well.

Well yes you could argue all argue all of those things regarding welfare etc, but that would be to totally dismiss the 1942 Beveridge report which I'm sure would not be your intention as I know you are well up to speed on your economics.

 

[rigsby]

I remember campaigning for the Labour party in both elections in 1974, when Labour promised in its manifesto:-

"a fundamental and irreversible shift in the balance of power and wealth in favour of working people and their families."

That's the sort of Labour party I happen to believe in.

So my answer to your first question would be yes.Interestingly, Labour won both elections that year!

That's a Labour party that could win a landslide.

Yvette Cooper was on radio 2 yesterday banging on about the unfortunate souls suffering from the 'bedroom tax'. In fact she had no solutions to her wonderful statements, every child should have a fair chance, etc. Maybe if she reached out to young people who have uni debts and are sleeping on friends sofas, just so they can work in London. She may just save us ten years of Boris.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

That's a Labour party that could win a landslide.

Yvette Cooper was on radio 2 yesterday banging on about the unfortunate souls suffering from the 'bedroom tax'. In fact she had no solutions to her wonderful statements, every child should have a fair chance, etc. Maybe if she reached out to young people who have uni debts and are sleeping on friends sofas, just so they can work in London. She may just save us ten years of Boris.

A more sensible approach by all candidates and parties to social housing would be a very good thing. Build more, make it have stricter qualifications for access to the tenants list, and make it not available for " right to buy" for at least 20 years with other "carrot and stick" management of that housing stock.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Apparantly, The Green Party want Corbyn as the next leader of Labour as well. That's the bloke who has suggested opening up old coal mines :smile: Honestly, you couldn't make it up.

 

[Blueronron]

Apparantly, The Green Party want Corbyn as the next leader of Labour as well. That's the bloke who has suggested opening up old coal mines :smile: Honestly, you couldn't make it up.

And yet you banged on all about UKIP in the election, to have a leader resign because he didnt win a seat, and then three days stayed on and basically make the party a laughing stock

Whatever with JC if he's elected leader it will be fair, regardless of how the papers slag him off. End of the day you will have a party with JC policies and not a Westminster smug look alike just wanting to look the part
Scare monger is great and the voter is not stupid and they will determine who is next in parliament, and if JC is a leader you will have a true political system to vote

Either left,with JC,Middle TF or right DC
Im sure JC has skeletons the press will leak, but tell which MP hasn't, and really do you agree with every leaders views ?

My labour vote for leadership has gone to JC, I believe he is just what the party needed, and though I cannot agree with everything he says, its the nearest to what I believe, and end of the day you must vote for what you believe in

UTS

 

[Benfleet A1]

And yet you banged on all about UKIP in the election, to have a leader resign because he didnt win a seat, and then three days stayed on and basically make the party a laughing stock

And what's that got to do with the price of fish? Clearly you have missed the irony of tree hugging, save the planet Greens supporting the nomination of someone who is thinking of opening up dirty, grotty coal mines again. Just stop and think about that for a second.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Arguably "justice" was established under Henry II,social welfare in the early 1910s and universities in the 15th century. As for economics, I think you'd have more credibility if you said, "I don't care about economics."

I honestly do not understand why anyone would vote for a leader of their party they didn't think could win a general election. I really don't understand why anyone would vote for a leader advocating a juvenile hard left platform that has failed repeatedly around the world, tme after time. Having said that, each to their own and I wish your man well.

You clearly haven't been paying attention to world events.If you had, you would have noticed that the "hard left" Syriza party won the national election in Greece back in January and Podemos are nicely poised to hold the balance of power in Spain,when elections are held in November,

 

[mrsblue]

I think Lord Janner has a decent shout of becoming leader:smiles:

The Labour loony tunes party are proving how ridiculous they are,Cmon Jezza u can win:hilarious:

 

[Benfleet A1]

You clearly haven't been paying attention to world events.If you had, you would have noticed that the "hard left" Syriza party won the national election in Greece back in January and Podemos are nicely poised to hold the balance of power in Spain,when elections are held in November,

Yes, just remind us all how that's working out.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yes, just remind us all how that's working out.

As Chou en Lai said (when asked about the results of the French revolution) :-"It's too early to tell." :smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

duplicate.

 

[Benfleet A1]

As Chou en Lai said (when asked about the results of the French revolution) :-"It's too early to tell." :smile:

Yeah right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33880217

 

[mrsblue]

And yet you banged on all about UKIP in the election, to have a leader resign because he didnt win a seat, and then three days stayed on and basically make the party a laughing stock

Whatever with JC if he's elected leader it will be fair, regardless of how the papers slag him off. End of the day you will have a party with JC policies and not a Westminster smug look alike just wanting to look the part
Scare monger is great and the voter is not stupid and they will determine who is next in parliament, and if JC is a leader you will have a true political system to vote

Either left,with JC,Middle TF or right DC
Im sure JC has skeletons the press will leak, but tell which MP hasn't, and really do you agree with every leaders views ?

My labour vote for leadership has gone to JC, I believe he is just what the party needed, and though I cannot agree with everything he says, its the nearest to what I believe, and end of the day you must vote for what you believe in

UTS

Corbyn and his old school policies are laughable and will never be backed by the masses,he still hasn't explained how he would pay for his vision,oh apart from hitting the well paid !

Labour are a joke,always have been always will be,their only concern is showering the poor with magnificent benefits whilst taxing the workers more and more.

Look at the two Ed's who were both comical and never statesmen in a million years,how about when Brown called the old lady a bigot!,jeez that was low,Don't forget Tone and his WMD's dossier.

I can see them remaining in the wilderness for decades especially if Jezza gets the job.

 

[callan]

Corbyn and his old school policies are laughable and will never be backed by the masses,he still hasn't explained how he would pay for his vision,oh apart from hitting the well paid !

Labour are a joke,always have been always will be,their only concern is showering the poor with magnificent benefits whilst taxing the workers more and more.

Look at the two Ed's who were both comical and never statesmen in a million years,how about when Brown called the old lady a bigot!,jeez that was low,Don't forget Tone and his WMD's dossier.

I can see them remaining in the wilderness for decades especially if Jezza gets the job.

Labours biggest problem, no matter who wins this election is that they will always be judged on their recent past and never their future.

 

[mrsblue]

Labours biggest problem, no matter who wins this election is that they will always be judged on their recent past and never their future.

Probably because the masses simply cannot trust them,look at the current in fighting amongst the chosen four,they are a complete turn off and a right old rabble to boot.

 

[callan]

Probably because the masses simply cannot trust them,look at the current in fighting amongst the chosen four,they are a complete turn off and a right old rabble to boot.

I have just spat my tea all over the keyboard....brilliant stuff.