Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[Cricko]

@Cricko @Blue43 @Colblue @Carl fancy answering this then?

I don't think he talked to them like a sack of ****..He did however say he would beat them if they tried to act upon there contracts in a bad way in his eyes...Yes i know of at least one player who did act and handed in the 14 day notice.

Can i tell you my source and would that make it fact. No I can't and would you believe it anyway. Probably not would be my guess.

 

[GBJ]

In Nik I trust. Hope you’re well mate

All good C.

Hope you and the family are doing good.

 

[danbowen]

You have a very rose tinted view of the situation, I do get that attitude is a coping mechanism for the absolute dire times Ron is dragging you all through.
You do realise though that every other club in the country went through covid right, but as far as I’m aware SUFC are the only ones up in front of HMRC and not paying their employees right now!!
It’s just the latest in RM’s line of excuses and blaming others for his selfish and **** poor management of the club

i totally agree with you about what your own reaction would be to being spoke to Like that, mine would be identical!
As for the validity of the quotes, they came from posters allegedly closer to some of the players than most others on here, so I guess you have to accept them as accurate!!
I can only think, for no real valid answer comes to mind, that they are doing it in their own interests for they are very much in the shop window right now, so positive attitudes and displays could benefit them longer term if they do leave

At no point have I disagreed that Ron isn’t the problem. We all know he is and we all agree we need him gone. All I have done is show why all of the misinformation on here can be seen from so many diffferent angles, why so many people are concerned for different reasons and also how easily certain things are taken for gospel by some when it can equally be easily discounted at the same time. If anyone wants to sit here and try and argue that what Ron said to the players is true I find it extremely difficult to believe that not a single player would have stood up to him or handed notice in after about of all of them players and staff. With all of the anger going around at the moment and these players some of which will not have been able to pay rent, bills etc can you imagine they just nodded and said yes Ron! Absolutely no chance.

The amount of fake rumours on here is mad. The club need to take a huge amount of responsibility for that as that has been caused by them not staying in regular communication with the fan base but equally even if they did set out a statement no one would believe a word of it so there are never gonna be any winners here.

It is a very stressful time for everyone and everyone is looking for a little bit of hope. People equally need to be aware that a rumour is exactly that and not to just be believed. Look yesterday for example - jack martin set up a new company a few weeks back and rumours started off of the back of that about bridging loans through him, Ron selling a piece of the pie etc.

The fan base all want the same thing - for the club to survive and Ron to go but look just below the surface of that and there are huge cracks in the fan base - protests, phoenix club to name a couple:

Everyone needs to stick together. If someone has a rumour great, share it, but make it clear it is a rumour. Equally people should be able to challenge that without being called ron sympathisers etc too. It doesn’t make people right and wrong just because they don’t have as hardline thoughts as others.

 

[teabee1]

So let’s just clear this up. Ron speaks
To the players like a sack of **** and telling them he will crush them in court if he needs to and the players don’t give their notice on their contracts as they are entitled too when they first can and continue to perform with dignity and respect and make no comments about what was said but all seem extremely together. Make that make sense? To me what has been reported on here is wide of the mark. Not a single player has given notice as far as we are aware.

I believe he tried to make light of the situation with a couple of jokes that went down like the proverbial lead balloon..

 

[Shrimper]

Anyone who believes Ron waffle should give their head a wobble

 

[GBJ]

I believe he tried to make light of the situation with a couple of jokes that went down like the proverbial lead balloon..

This.

They weren’t fighting words, but they certainly weren’t the words of an embarrassed man.

 

[basilrobbie]

1 I didn’t say he ploughs millions in I actually said if he has.

2 covid is the reason for the legacy debt.

I’m not backing him up just putting the same argument at you but from a slightly different angle with other rumours. There is so much fake news on here that actually no one knows the truth and the fake news on here makes everything as complicated for us as Ron’s accounts do to his accountants.

1. Nice piece of backtracking there.

2. COVID didn't just happen in Southend, you know. Every club in the country was affected by it and most of them managed to be competitive and pay their bills on time.

You may be trying to play devil's advocate for all I know, but criticising others for relying on incorrect information is a bit rich when you have none of your own to offer. You are making yourself look like a mouthpiece for Mr. Martin by continually trying to deflect the conversation away from his shortcomings.

I hope to God he does have a rabbit to pull from the hat, and that all of this is mere brinkmanship. But if it is, perhaps someone should ask him to reflect upon the fact that he is playing fast and loose with the actual livelihoods of his employees and creditors, and the hopes and dreams of thousands more.

 

[danbowen]

1. Nice piece of backtracking there.

2. COVID didn't just happen in Southend, you know. Every club in the country was affected by it and most of them managed to be competitive and pay their bills on time.

You may be trying to play devil's advocate for all I know, but criticising others for relying on incorrect information is a bit rich when you have none of your own to offer. You are making yourself look like a mouthpiece for Mr. Martin by continually trying to deflect the conversation away from his shortcomings.

I hope to God he does have a rabbit to pull from the hat, and that all of this is mere brinkmanship. But if it is, perhaps someone should ask him to reflect upon the fact that he is playing fast and loose with the actual livelihoods of his employees and creditors, and the hopes and dreams of thousands more.

I suggest you learn to read as I said “If he has used as much of his own money as he says he has then he would have been better off getting rid of the club years ago” so hardly backtracking.

The debt for HMRC that we had a time to pay agreement for is for covid related debt. Other clubs took out loans etc which has put some of them in trouble (Scunthorpe before the take over, Swindon, Rochdale, Oldham are a couple of others to note). Our situation is the ****test of the **** but don’t for one minute think we are the only team that are in financial trouble. Plus if we go under we most certainly won’t be the last team to go under either.

But that’s all fine you do you and we will all believe everything we read (for those that can read that is).

 

[basilrobbie]

I suggest you learn to read as I said “If he has used as much of his own money as he says he has then he would have been better off getting rid of the club years ago” so hardly backtracking.

The debt for HMRC that we had a time to pay agreement for is for covid related debt. Other clubs took out loans etc which has put some of them in trouble (Scunthorpe before the take over, Swindon, Rochdale, Oldham are a couple of others to note). Our situation is the ****test of the **** but don’t for one minute think we are the only team that are in financial trouble. Plus if we go under we most certainly won’t be the last team to go under either.

But that’s all fine you do you and we will all believe everything we read (for those that can read that is).

I don't really want to get into a tit for tat, given I am only a guest. However, I will put two points to you :

1. Who says that the HMRC debt is a COVID legacy? Is it the club? Whenever I have seen reference to it it has comes from the club and is usually followed by a reference to two successive relegations (written in that passive way that suggests this was just an unfortunate accident).

2. You will get no argument from me about the seriousness of the predicament some of the club you mention have faced. But this is more deflection, isn't it, as well as being completely irrelevant? You can't just minimise the complete ineptitude of your owner by suggesting that somewhere, somehow, there might be somebody who is worse.

 

[Sparte]

Ron is only doing what numerous other business men would do. He moves money and assets between companies, he avoids paying interest where he doesn't have to. He's not the first to "bend" the law to manage his companies assets. He'll "sacrifice" some and protect others so that he is always a moving target for tax authorities. The loan will arrive and the debts will be paid off but not until the very last moment; that way, the interest payments won't start ahead of when they need to...

 

[danbowen]

I don't really want to get into a tit for tat, given I am only a guest. However, I will put two points to you :

1. Who says that the HMRC debt is a COVID legacy? Is it the club? Whenever I have seen reference to it it has comes from the club and is usually followed by a reference to two successive relegations (written in that passive way that suggests this was just an unfortunate accident).

2. You will get no argument from me about the seriousness of the predicament some of the club you mention have faced. But this is more deflection, isn't it, as well as being completely irrelevant? You can't just minimise the complete ineptitude of your owner by suggesting that somewhere, somehow, there might be somebody who is worse.

Appreciate your comments. Re point 2 Ron is the biggest issue and there is no questioning that but other people also need to take a small amount of the blame - council, board members, football authorities and even fans to an extent as it was left far too long before anything rallied up to the levels needed.

The government white paper is desperately needed to stop clubs being in a similar situation ever again but the government are too busy arguing over what is a man and a woman.

 

[euroshrimper]

Ron is only doing what numerous other business men would do. He moves money and assets between companies, he avoids paying interest where he doesn't have to. He's not the first to "bend" the law to manage his companies assets. He'll "sacrifice" some and protect others so that he is always a moving target for tax authorities. The loan will arrive and the debts will be paid off but not until the very last moment; that way, the interest payments won't start ahead of when they need to...

Not all buisness men or Company Directors act in that way and I speak with some experience........the ethics of our owner leave a lot to be desired !

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

Ron is only doing what numerous other business men would do. He moves money and assets between companies, he avoids paying interest where he doesn't have to. He's not the first to "bend" the law to manage his companies assets. He'll "sacrifice" some and protect others so that he is always a moving target for tax authorities. The loan will arrive and the debts will be paid off but not until the very last moment; that way, the interest payments won't start ahead of when they need to...

The difference is he's doing it with a football club at the heart of our city, which gives and means so much to many thousands of people. Not to mention it's history.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Not all buisness men or Company Directors act in that way and I speak with some experience........the ethics of our owner leave a lot to be desired !

I don't think he's saying they all do it. He's saying many do. It's a bit like the offshore accounts thing and the many ways their well paid accountants come up with for the rich to avoid tax, etc, and the switching of names within the family for owning this or that. We know they do it. Even our MPs are doing it. Do they all do it?, No.
Does it look like Ron is doing what Sparte is suggesting, Yes.

 

[Maxgoyard]

So let’s just clear this up. Ron speaks
To the players like a sack of **** and telling them he will crush them in court if he needs to and the players don’t give their notice on their contracts as they are entitled too when they first can and continue to perform with dignity and respect and make no comments about what was said but all seem extremely together. Make that make sense? To me what has been reported on here is wide of the mark. Not a single player has given notice as far as we are aware.

There are players that handed their notices in.

 

[Sparte]

I don't think he's saying they all do it. He's saying many do. It's a bit like the offshore accounts thing and the many ways their well paid accountants come up with for the rich to avoid tax, etc, and the switching of names within the family for owning this or that. We know they do it. Even our MPs are doing it. Do they all do it?, No.
Does it look like Ron is doing what Sparte is suggesting, Yes.

Thank you, well said....

 

[Sparte]

The difference is he's doing it with a football club at the heart of our city, which gives and means so much to many thousands of people. Not to mention it's history.

Indeed, SUFC means so much to so many but to Ron, it's an asset with a value. As with many business people, money is his driver at the expense of all else....

 

[wiggy]

Indeed, SUFC means so much to so many but to Ron, it's an asset with a value. As with many business people, money is his driver at the expense of all else....

Would you bother at 70?......stress he puts on himself probably won't see the first brick laid!

 

[Petejames]

There are players that handed their notices in.

Given that the stadium is yet again delayed the £5 million bridging loan was only meant to get us through until the stadium build starts in Spring/Summer.

We owe HMRC nearly £2 million for historical debts, plus any recent HMRC tax bills will now be owed. Outstanding wages and suppliers means we’re literally going to be in the same boat again in a couple of months time.

If we somehow get through the 1st March things will sadly not improve.

but when they get paid that gets ripped up

 

[dusterman]

Evidence if you ever needed it that Ronald has paid in full and some time ago…