Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[ALW]

Tomorrow would seem an important date in this ongoing saga. It is the last day an administration application can be made to the court and served in sufficient time on HMRC as the Petitioning Creditor with a petition due to be heard on 1 March.

If an application for Administration is served so late so as to not allow sufficient service on HMRC, I cannot see the court being impressed and will probably look upon it it as simply another delaying tactic. They Judge may be inclined to grant an adjournment but the adjournment will probably be days not weeks simply to allow the Administration application to be heard on sufficient notice to HMRC.

As someone who works in the insolvency industry, I am not convinced an Administration is feasible. We all know the club is running at a loss of around £2M a year. Any Insolvency Practitioner who gets appointed Administrator will need to ensure he can pay liabilities as they fall due during the period that the company is an Administration. In the case of football clubs this is normally done by a combination of cutting costs and a third party providing funding to an Administration to cover losses. I believe that the reason Macclesfield and Bury went into liquidation rather than Administration was that no one saw a way of funding the clubs whilst they were in Administration.

The problem will be exacerbated as the club will have virtually no income during May, June and July. Who will buy a season ticket not knowing whether the club will even start the next season. The same applies to potential sponsors. Season ticket sales and sponsorship revenue are the main source of funding during this period.

Due to the way the National League operates a crucial date would be the league AGM which is generally held the first weekend of June. The League have previous in denying membership to clubs that they feel are uncertain to complete the season. This in effect means relegation to the Isthmian league.

 

[kentblues]

I think administration or winding up is unlikely. Certainly in terms of an application as soon as tomorrow re the former.

The administration scenario is a last resort in extremis, but one that is unlikely but possible. I wouldn't be thinking of administration applying for any extended period at all (if that'e the plan likely it won't work). Whilst not in pre-pack territory (and obviously not available at this point if it ever was under league rules) I would expect both a buyer (or buyers) and short term funding to be part of any late presentation to the court. Yes adjournment would be short, but enough. I won't speculate what this buyer might look like, but administration for the reasons you describe will only work as a last resort if nonetheless the scenario is well planned for...

Again I think the Anna Firth piece touched on this quite well also. She seems quite close to it and is a lawyer with experience in this area..

Lets hope its not left to the day before we hear some positive news...

 

[MK Shrimper]

Due to the way the National League operates a crucial date would be the league AGM which is generally held the first weekend of June. The League have previous in denying membership to clubs that they feel are uncertain to complete the season. This in effect means relegation to the Isthmian league.

Wow. Better than nothing perhaps, and Southend United will at least continue somewhere - I very much doubt it'll be Roots Hall. Ground share with Canvey?

 

[Barry.C]

I think administration or winding up is unlikely. Certainly in terms of an application as soon as tomorrow re the former.

The administration scenario is a last resort in extremis, but one that is unlikely but possible. I wouldn't be thinking of administration applying for any extended period at all (if that'e the plan likely it won't work). Whilst not in pre-pack territory (and obviously not available at this point if it ever was under league rules) I would expect both a buyer (or buyers) and short term funding to be part of any late presentation to the court. Yes adjournment would be short, but enough. I won't speculate what this buyer might look like, but administration for the reasons you describe will only work as a last resort if nonetheless the scenario is well planned for...

Again I think the Anna Firth piece touched on this quite well also. She seems quite close to it and is a lawyer with experience in this area..

Lets hope its not left to the day before we hear some positive news...

Exactly this

If Ron has secured the loan, there is only 8 days left in the month, so is it going to turn up suddenly on the 28th?

Whilst I get making a significant saving on the repayment by delay, surely it would be a rare chance to do the decent thing and let us know the score sooner than on the day

Quite a few have hinted the deal is done, The White knight scenario will do Ron even further harm this time in the eyes of supporters, It would undoubtedly affirm his preparedness to let us all really suffer, Time to be charitable and update now or by Friday?

 

[Blue43]

Given that the stadium is yet again delayed the £5 million bridging loan was only meant to get us through until the stadium build starts in Spring/Summer.

We owe HMRC nearly £2 million for historical debts, plus any recent HMRC tax bills will now be owed. Outstanding wages and suppliers means we’re literally going to be in the same boat again in a couple of months time.

If we somehow get through the 1st March things will sadly not improve.

 

[gpd]

Who paid for the new training facilities? It may have been stated elsewhere, but I would amazed that this has been allowed to continue if there was a dire outcome ahead? No company would do the work on a promise of payment - especially a promise made by Ron. The company will have done DD before beginning work, and insisted on staged payments made as work progressed. So the money has come from?

 

[Supershrimper]

Edited

A good watch

A perfect summary of our situation.

 

[Barry.C]

BBC Essex News

Revised plans for a smaller Southend United stadium have been held up as the club has not supplied enough information, the council said.
Last autumn, the club unveiled plans for a 16,226-seater stadium, reduced from the previous 21,000-seat plan.
The revised scheme also removed a hotel to allow more homes to be built on the Fossetts Farm site.
The club owes £1.4m to HMRC and a winding-up hearing calling for the club to be closed down is due on 1 March.
The applications for the smaller stadium and more homes are both still to be decided by Southend Council's development control committee, the Local Democracy Reporting Service said.
A statement on the council's website said: "We don't yet have all the information required from the applicant to determine either application.
"The applicant is aware of what is required and discussions are ongoing."
The council said it wasn't unusual for planning time limits to be extended and that it had no influence over the stadium plans.
The club is also set to build 502 homes at its current site at Roots Hall. Citizen Housing LLP will facilitate the funding of both sites. The council will not be required to invest any capital in the development of either site.
The authority said: "The council has been, and remains, committed to the delivery of high-quality housing for local people across the city and we remain in discussions regarding the developments at Roots Hall and Fossetts Farm.
"We also remain supportive of the football club, which we know is so loved by so many."

Dont need any delay with a massive bridging loan

Lets get cracking people

 

[The Big Dady]

Who paid for the new training facilities? It may have been stated elsewhere, but I would amazed that this has been allowed to continue if there was a dire outcome ahead? No company would do the work on a promise of payment - especially a promise made by Ron. The company will have done DD before beginning work, and insisted on staged payments made as work progressed. So the money has come from?

Training Ground is nothing to do with Southend United Football Club Ltd (The Club).

Same as the new Fossetts Farm Stadium, and Fossetts Farm and Roots Hall housing developments have nothing to do with Southend United Football Club Ltd

The club are not involved in the planning, financial, or building of anything.

It is believed a £30million Government loan will kickstart the project – however no deal is currently in place.

This "enabling loan" from Homes England will potentially loan Roots Hall Limited, the firm behind the development, alongside Thames Plaza, the £30million sum.

 

[Cricko]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627720836667801617

 

[kenty in weardale]

Re National League membership for next season, the NL have also in the past required a bond to be paid to them prior to ratifying membership to ensure that a club is financially robust enough to survive the season. If I remember correctly, when this was not paid then the club was sent further down the pyramid

 

[gpd]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627720836667801617

It's nice to get a mention .... but don't hold your breath. What on earth can a Government do? Interfere with due process? We're still waiting on the Government for the £51,000,000 for our hospital, promised when David Amess was alive and has been promised to on its way by our new MP on numerous occasions. I am prepared to be very wrong but the Government won't lift a finger to dig Ron out of the hole of his own making.

 

[gpd]

Training Ground is nothing to do with Southend United Football Club Ltd (The Club).

Same as the new Fossetts Farm Stadium, and Fossetts Farm and Roots Hall housing developments have nothing to do with Southend United Football Club Ltd

The club are not involved in the planning, financial, or building of anything.

It is believed a £30million Government loan will kickstart the project – however no deal is currently in place.

This "enabling loan" from Homes England will potentially loan Roots Hall Limited, the firm behind the development, alongside Thames Plaza, the £30million sum.

This I know, which is why I didn't mention the club once in my comment/question. So who has paid for what HAS been done? Ron must have given the go ahead for the contract?

 

[brigg blue]

This I know, which is why I didn't mention the club once in my comment/question. So who has paid for what HAS been done? Ron must have given the go ahead for the contract?

Why do I have a horrible sinking feeling that we don't want to know the answer to that, especially as the training grounds cost at least 1 million

 

[LBBlue]

Training Ground is nothing to do with Southend United Football Club Ltd. Same as the new Fossetts Farm Stadium, and Fossetts Farm and Roots Hall housing developments have nothing to do with Southend United Football Club Ltd and are not involved in the planning, financial, or building of anything.

While you are totally correct, the applicant in the planning applications is Southend United Football Club, so the ill informed are of course confused……

 

[The Big Dady]

This I know, which is why I didn't mention the club once in my comment/question. So who has paid for what HAS been done? Ron must have given the go ahead for the contract?

Ron Martin is no longer a director of Roots Hall Ltd (resigned March 2022) Jack Martin is the sole director now.

 

[BluBayou]

Training Ground is nothing to do with Southend United Football Club Ltd (The Club).

Same as the new Fossetts Farm Stadium, and Fossetts Farm and Roots Hall housing developments have nothing to do with Southend United Football Club Ltd

The club are not involved in the planning, financial, or building of anything.

It is believed a £30million Government loan will kickstart the project – however no deal is currently in place.

This "enabling loan" from Homes England will potentially loan Roots Hall Limited, the firm behind the development, alongside Thames Plaza, the £30million sum.

If SUFC are nothing to do with the property developments then how does the £5M bridging loan end up paying SUFC debt to HMRC?. Is the bridging loan to the club or one of the property companies?. And how does the money get from the property companies to SUFC?. It's all very confusing.

 

[The Late One]

While you are totally correct, the applicant in the planning applications is Southend United Football Club, so the ill informed are of course confused……

So going by that...Southend United are putting in planning applications, on land it doesn't own, for a stadium it won't own and the only financial benefits for the club are at the discretion of our current trustworthy owner

 

[rootshall rambler]

It's nice to get a mention .... but don't hold your breath. What on earth can a Government do? Interfere with due process? We're still waiting on the Government for the £51,000,000 for our hospital, promised when David Amess was alive and has been promised to on its way by our new MP on numerous occasions. I am prepared to be very wrong but the Government won't lift a finger to dig Ron out of the hole of his own making

I fear you are right about lifting a finger. I cannot foresee any government assistance coming our way.

 

[The Big Dady]

If SUFC are nothing to do with the property developments then how does the £5M bridging loan end up paying SUFC debt to HMRC?. Is the bridging loan to the club or one of the property companies?. And how does the money get from the property companies to SUFC?. It's all very confusing.

I believe group development companies are obtaining the "Bringing Loan" of approx £5million, group development companies will then loan some to Southend United Football Club Ltd enough to pay off HMRC and some of the other club debits.