Hard or Soft Brexit?

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Sorry,I make you wrong here, and worse is that you seem to be condoning their actions. Gibraltar was and never will be on the table qas a result of Brexit, especially when the residents want nothing to do with Spanish sovereignty. Negotiations must be fair and relevant.

If they don't want to play ball then we can build our relationships and trades with the other 169 countries around the world. No deal is better than a bad deal after all, an outcome BOTH sides will regret.

Not particularly condoning their actions but just seeing the situation from their point of view (empathy). Still like to have an explanation of how we gave back Hong Kong to China whilst wanting to keep complete control over Gibralter? Aren't there similarities here???

 

[rigsby]

Not particularly condoning their actions but just seeing the situation from their point of view (empathy). Still like to have an explanation of how we gave back Hong Kong to China whilst wanting to keep complete control over Gibralter? Aren't there similarities here???

No...We only took Hong Kong as a temporary punishment Chinese for having the audacity to fire upon the British Navy. They were trying to stop us flooding their country with opium which of course was legal at the time.

Gibraltar has been far more strategic and of course the world would be a very different place had it not been in our control over the last 300 years.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

So what your saying is Teresa May was 100% correct to not give any assurances about EU nationals before we started.

Gibralter was an issue I certainly hadn't thought about and I'm not sure it is in the same category as Europeans living in the UK and Britons living in Europe. As you know, its been a running sore in relations between the UK and Spain for years. Sometimes it flares up but for most of the time it is an issue bubbling just under the surface in Spain. They have clearly jumped on this opportunity (Brexit), to advance their claims. Maybe the Gibralter issue was something understood, but not spoken about, by the UK government. If so, it goes to show how nasty, complicated and bitter this all risks becoming

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

No...We only took Hong Kong as a temporary punishment Chinese for having the audacity to fire upon the British Navy. They were trying to stop us flooding their country with opium which of course was legal at the time.

Gibraltar has been far more strategic and of course the world would be a very different place had it not been in our control over the last 300 years.

Yes, I should have remembered that myself. I can agree with you about how influential Gibralter has been..........but that of course is history.

 

[rigsby]

Yes, I should have remembered that myself. I can agree with you about how influential Gibralter has been..........but that of course is history.

And of course History always repeats itself.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And of course History always repeats itself.

According to Marx,(inThe Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon) the first time as tragedy,the second time as farce.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Gibraltar voted 99% to stay part of the UK and 96% to stay part of the EU. An even more stark conundrum than that of the Scottish. The EU referendum throws up so many 'interesting' scenarios. I'd love to fast forward two years and see exactly how this is panning out at that point.

 

[onceknownasrab]

I have long believed in the importance of a European union. It can have many advantages. I am also an avid Brexiteer. That may sound confusing but I believe in leaving the EU we will contribute to its demise. In time a new union can be created and one that is not a toy for the self-serving types such as Juncker and Tusk. Many say you have to be a part of it to bring about change. The EU, as it is now, cannot change for the better. It needs to disband and countries like the UK need to be at the forefront of a new union.

Brexit is for our children and our grandchildren. It actually gives them the right to determine their future and not have it stolen from them by the duplicitous referendum of the 70's.

Superstates, historically, do not work. Every Empire of the past died a death and mainly because how ever much we appreciate the culture of others, humans, are tribal. The slow assimilation of change is more palatable to most and enforced change meets the most resistance.

Look at Empires, Roman, French, British. Where are they now? More recently the USSR, Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia. The politicians of this world can draw lines on maps and try to dictate nationality but invariably, often violently, they will fail.

We need close ties to all nations of the world and certainly those close to our shores. We need good trade deals, shared security information, and amity. We, nor other nations, need to be controlled.

Beyond any doubt, the major benefactor in the current EU setup is Germany . Two previous attempts by them to control Europe failed and now they are succeeding without firing a gun.

Some say Brexit will make us worse off. I am not convinced that's true but I do know the pursuit of wealth should not be at any cost.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I have long believed in the importance of a European union. It can have many advantages. I am also an avid Brexiteer. That may sound confusing but I believe in leaving the EU we will contribute to its demise. In time a new union can be created and one that is not a toy for the self-serving types such as Juncker and Tusk. Many say you have to be a part of it to bring about change. The EU, as it is now, cannot change for the better. It needs to disband and countries like the UK need to be at the forefront of a new union.

Brexit is for our children and our grandchildren. It actually gives them the right to determine their future and not have it stolen from them by the duplicitous referendum of the 70's.

Superstates, historically, do not work. Every Empire of the past died a death and mainly because how ever much we appreciate the culture of others, humans, are tribal. The slow assimilation of change is more palatable to most and enforced change meets the most resistance.

Look at Empires, Roman, French, British. Where are they now? More recently the USSR, Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia. The politicians of this world can draw lines on maps and try to dictate nationality but invariably, often violently, they will fail.

We need close ties to all nations of the world and certainly those close to our shores. We need good trade deals, shared security information, and amity. We, nor other nations, need to be controlled.

Beyond any doubt, the major benefactor in the current EU setup is Germany . Two previous attempts by them to control Europe failed and now they are succeeding without firing a gun.

Some say Brexit will make us worse off. I am not convinced that's true but I do know the pursuit of wealth should not be at any cost.

You might be interested in Guy Verhofstadt's Europe's last Chance: (Why the European States Must Form a More Perfect Union).

 

[Bielzibubz]

I have long believed in the importance of a European union. It can have many advantages. I am also an avid Brexiteer. That may sound confusing but I believe in leaving the EU we will contribute to its demise. In time a new union can be created and one that is not a toy for the self-serving types such as Juncker and Tusk. Many say you have to be a part of it to bring about change. The EU, as it is now, cannot change for the better. It needs to disband and countries like the UK need to be at the forefront of a new union.

Brexit is for our children and our grandchildren. It actually gives them the right to determine their future and not have it stolen from them by the duplicitous referendum of the 70's.

Superstates, historically, do not work. Every Empire of the past died a death and mainly because how ever much we appreciate the culture of others, humans, are tribal. The slow assimilation of change is more palatable to most and enforced change meets the most resistance.

Look at Empires, Roman, French, British. Where are they now? More recently the USSR, Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia. The politicians of this world can draw lines on maps and try to dictate nationality but invariably, often violently, they will fail.

We need close ties to all nations of the world and certainly those close to our shores. We need good trade deals, shared security information, and amity. We, nor other nations, need to be controlled.

Beyond any doubt, the major benefactor in the current EU setup is Germany . Two previous attempts by them to control Europe failed and now they are succeeding without firing a gun.

Some say Brexit will make us worse off. I am not convinced that's true but I do know the pursuit of wealth should not be at any cost.

Best reply to date. Bravo.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Best reply to date. Bravo.

Perhaps,in the interests of debate,you could explain what you like so much about the post?

Apart from the fact,of course, that it's written by a self-confessed "avid Brexiteer" :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39465798

The GB government has "overlooked" Gilbraltar in Wednesday's letter to the EU according to one MEP.

Doesn't augur well for when negotiations actually get under way.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Perhaps,in the interests of debate,you could explain what you like so much about the post?

Apart from the fact,of course, that it's written by a self-confessed "avid Brexiteer" :winking:

It pretty much sums up my thoughts.
It's concise.
It's well written and goes into detail without rhetoric or resulting to petty insults (yes I'm guilty, but only towards you)
It explains why a lot of us Brexiters want out of the EU but aren't wholly against the idea of a European trading bloc.
It gives a bit of historical context to explain some of the reasoning behind the opinion.

It hasn't resorted to a biased media link

There, that do or do you want more?


PS Sort your damn spacebar out. Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/01/nhs-recruits-special-status-brexit-eu-nationals

"Time for an NHS guarantee".Yes it is.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Presumably,even the BBC will pick up on this story eventually.

 

[superblue24]

I don't see how it could be difficult to give such promises. We should be making sure that "skilled" workers, medical or otherwise are held onto. I quite like the Australian system where you need to offer a skill they are in demand of before they'll accept you moving there. Medical skills are something we definitely lack here.

 

[londonblue]

I don't see how it could be difficult to give such promises. We should be making sure that "skilled" workers, medical or otherwise are held onto. I quite like the Australian system where you need to offer a skill they are in demand of before they'll accept you moving there. Medical skills are something we definitely lack here.

I understand the theory behind that, but it does mean that no-one with any entrepreneurial spirit will ever be allowed in. Someone like the guy that start Compare the Market springs to mind. That guy has created a huge number of jobs and wealth in this country.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

A brilliant article that tells it as it is. The conclusion I draw is that it is either going to end in a 'no deal' very hard, 'falling off the cliff' Brexit, or an agreement that will show little benefit for the UK from all the time and money spent achieving it. Take your choice!

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017/apr/01/brexit-may-merkel-eu-talks-davis

 

[superblue24]

A brilliant article that tells it as it is. The conclusion I draw is that it is either going to end in a 'no deal' very hard, 'falling off the cliff' Brexit, or an agreement that will show little benefit for the UK from all the time and money spent achieving it. Take your choice!

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017/apr/01/brexit-may-merkel-eu-talks-davis

hmm, reads more like an unhinged rant tempered by sour grapes.

forgive me if I take a pro remain, left wing newspaper article with a pinch of salt. I'm sure you'd do the same with the Telegraph. What is it they say about opinions and arseholes?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

A brilliant article that tells it as it is. The conclusion I draw is that it is either going to end in a 'no deal' very hard, 'falling off the cliff' Brexit, or an agreement that will show little benefit for the UK from all the time and money spent achieving it. Take your choice!

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017/apr/01/brexit-may-merkel-eu-talks-davis

hmm, reads more like an unhinged rant tempered by sour grapes.

forgive me if I take a pro remain, left wing newspaper article with a pinch of salt. I'm sure you'd do the same with the Telegraph. What is it they say about opinions and arseholes?

Presumably one of the "enemies within" was the Croydon asylum seeker.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-39470487