Hard or Soft Brexit?

[yogi bear up the cagire]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...theresa-may-worried-for-britain-a7659821.html

Well, I suppose all the enthusiastic Brexiters on here will see this a just posturing. Yet when does the posturing stop and the real negociating start? The guidelines (red lines) appear to be firmly set by the EU. If the UK wants a trade deal it will firstly have to pay for it and then abide by the EU rules and laws, rather like Norway or Switzerland. As has been said many times before, what point is there being outside the club with no say and still abiding by the rules. If May manages to get something good from this, which will please all sides..................even I will congratulate her. :smile:
Interesting point about Gibralter as well and by the way Mrs May, I'm a British national, here in Saint Gaudens...........you do know where we all are, don't you???

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I have never yet met anyone who voted out because of the money to the NHS. Brexiters had made their minds up long before any campaign. In fact that's the last place I would want it to go but that's for another thread.

Since the vote if anything its more Remainers who realised they were lied to. Not just the punishment budget, WW3, or the financial meltdown but many other small things. Like the young band members I know who thought as from the 24th June they would need a visa for every different EU country.

You're not old enough to remember the 'phoney war' are you?

 

[callan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...theresa-may-worried-for-britain-a7659821.html

Well, I suppose all the enthusiastic Brexiters on here will see this a just posturing. Yet when does the posturing stop and the real negociating start? The guidelines (red lines) appear to be firmly set by the EU. If the UK wants a trade deal it will firstly have to pay for it and then abide by the EU rules and laws, rather like Norway or Switzerland. As has been said many times before, what point is there being outside the club with no say and still abiding by the rules. If May manages to get something good from this, which will please all sides..................even I will congratulate her. :smile:
Interesting point about Gibralter as well and by the way Mrs May, I'm a British national, here in Saint Gaudens...........you do know where we all are, don't you???

Good to see Denis Macshane has found gainful employment in your favorite rag, eh Yogi?

Do you think his analysis is in line with previous stuff he has come out with?

Lets hope so.

 

[rigsby]

You're not old enough to remember the 'phoney war' are you?

What's that got to do with anything.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

What's that got to do with anything.

no, it's got to do with everything! :winking:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Good to see Denis Macshane has found gainful employment in your favorite rag, eh Yogi?

Do you think his analysis is in line with previous stuff he has come out with?

Lets hope so.

Keep it up! The EU will eventually melt in face of British determination. :smile: You've set sail in your boat 'UK Independence,' I would however check your hull, especially when going through the Straits of Gibralter. Honestly, it gives me no pleasure believing this and may in the future, cause me extreme pain. I wish the UK luck in negociations but find difficulty in seeing how they will manage to square the circle.

 

[callan]

Keep it up! The EU will eventually melt in face of British determination. :smile: You've set sail in your boat 'UK Independence,' I would however check your hull, especially when going through the Straits of Gibralter. Honestly, it gives me no pleasure believing this and may in the future, cause me extreme pain. I wish the UK luck in negociations but find difficulty in seeing how they will manage to square the circle.

I shouldn't worry too much if I were you Yogi....Macshane has an appalling record on getting things right.

 

[superblue24]

So, the ink on the letter is still drying and already one of the member states (Spain) has laid claim to something that has nothing to do with our withdrawal negotiations (Gibraltar). This for me is a very low blow by the Spanish and one they should really be ashamed of. I guess they are now showing their true colours, we should expect to see more of the same in the coming 2 years.

Moves like this only make me satisfied to be leaving the EU and just shows to me that they have nothing in common with British values and conduct.

Ultimately, I feel a referendum should be offered to the Gibraltan folks since they voted so unanimously in favour of staying in the EU. Can't see them voting to join Spain though, and this should be respected.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

This may, in time, merit it's own thread but just how important a subject will Gibralter prove in Brexit? An issue that has appeared from nowhere (although Johnson isn't surprised......so why was it never mentioned in the debate?) and maybe, carelessly left out of the letter envoking article 50. Surprise, surprise, blackmail, evidently, can be used by both sides. :smile:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/31/future-of-gibraltar-at-stake-in-brexit-negotiations

 

[superblue24]

Sorry Yogi, I think this was a "poor form" move on Spain's part and has soured the mood from the outset. What has Gibraltar got do with anything?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Sorry Yogi, I think this was a "poor form" move on Spain's part and has soured the mood from the outset. What has Gibraltar got do with anything?

The law of unintended consequences? :winking:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39465631

"The EU was standing up for its members' interests.
"That means Spain now," a senior EU official told the newspaper.".

In any case it's the EU which has thrown the Gib. ball into Spain's (veto ) hands.Not the other way around.

 

[rigsby]

The law of unintended consequences? :winking:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39465631

"The EU was standing up for its members' interests.
"That means Spain now," a senior EU official told the newspaper.".

In any case it's the EU which has thrown the Gib ball.into Spain's (veto ) hands.Not the other way around.

Ban all flights from Britain to Spain unless the Spanish sign an agreement that whilst they are an EU member they will not try and claim Gibraltar......There you go job done ....Next

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

So, the ink on the letter is still drying and already one of the member states (Spain) has laid claim to something that has nothing to do with our withdrawal negociations (Gibraltar). This for me is a very low blow by the Spanish and one they should really be ashamed of. I guess they are now showing their true colours, we should expect to see more of the same in the coming 2 years.

Moves like this only make me satisfied to be leaving the EU and just shows to me that they have nothing in common with British values and conduct.

Ultimately, I feel a referendum should be offered to the Gibraltan folks since they voted so unanimously in favour of staying in the EU. Can't see them voting to join Spain though, and this should be respected.

Oh, but I'm afraid it looks as though it may well have. The nasty Spanish, not playing by Queensbury rules..........tut, tut! (waiting for Barna's contribution on this :smile:) I have an idea there will be plenty of low blows by both sides over the next two years. Only those naive enough to believe Brexit was a simple matter of writing a letter and just leaving the club, will be surprised. The complexities of disentangling ourselves from the EU are mind boggling and people will soon start to see what the UK has embarked upon. Many of those who complain about the problems and difficulties which will arise, lack the full understanding of what puting an X in the leave box exactly involved.............in the coming couple of years they will start to see. The first thing that will quickly become apparent (although it will be covered up as well as possible by the right-wing press) is how May will arrive virtually naked and powerless at the negociating table, unable to direct anything .....it's the EU which will call the tune......the UK will dance as well as it can.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Ban all flights from Britain to Spain unless the Spanish sign an agreement that whilst they are an EU member they will not try and claim Gibraltar......There you go job done ....Next

Won't work..I've already got a couple of return flight tickets for SEN at the end of the month.Will be looking to make a couple more bookings for September when next season's fixtures are out.:winking:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Ban all flights from Britain to Spain unless the Spanish sign an agreement that whilst they are an EU member they will not try and claim Gibraltar......There you go job done ....Next

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.........I like your style! :smile: Sadly, your joking doesn't hide a serious issue, which could become even more important in the coming months. If it's that important to the UK why didn't May include Gibralter in her letter invoking article50???............Was it carelessness or did she hope that by not mentioning it, no one else would notice? I know the Spanish like long siestas............but they're not asleep all of the time!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.........I like your style! :smile: Sadly, your joking doesn't hide a serious issue, which could become even more important in the coming months. If it's that important to the UK why didn't May include Gibralter in her letter invoking article50???............Was it carelessness or did she hope that by not mentioning no one else would notice. I know the Spanish like long siestas............but they're not asleep all of the time!

The advantage of a siesta is it means you can keep working longer and not just 9/5, especially since the average Spanish (office day ) is from 8-2 and then 4-6/8.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Sorry Yogi, I think this was a "poor form" move on Spain's part and has soured the mood from the outset. What has Gibraltar got do with anything?

I'm afraid you have to show a little empathy here. Gibralter has never ceased to be an issue with mainland Spain, which they consider, needs to be resolved............Imagine Hampshire and the Isle of White being run by Spain? Are there similarities between this situation and us handing back Hong Kong to China? The Spanish have seized on Brexit as a means of leverage to advance the Gibralter debate...........who honestly can blame them?

 

[rigsby]

I'm afraid you have to show a little empathy here. Gibralter has never ceased to be an issue with mainland Spain, which they consider, needs to be resolved............Imagine Hampshire and the Isle of White being run by Spain? Are there similarities between this situation and us handing back Hong Kong to China? The Spanish have seized on Brexit as a means of leverage to advance the Gibralter debate...........who honestly can blame them?

So what your saying is Teresa May was 100% correct to not give any assurances about EU nationals before we started.

 

[londonblue]

I wonder if we're able to apply for Gibraltar passports and therefore remain members of the EU.

 

[superblue24]

Oh, but I'm afraid it looks as though it may well have. The nasty Spanish, not playing by Queensbury rules..........tut, tut! (waiting for Barna's contribution on this :smile:) I have an idea there will be plenty of low blows by both sides over the next two years. Only those naive enough to believe Brexit was a simple matter of writing a letter and just leaving the club, will be surprised. The complexities of disentangling ourselves from the EU are mind boggling and people will soon start to see what the UK has embarked upon. Many of those who complain about the problems and difficulties which will arise, lack the full understanding of what puting an X in the leave box exactly involved.............in the coming couple of years they will start to see. The first thing that will quickly become apparent (although it will be covered up as well as possible by the right-wing press) is how May will arrive virtually naked and powerless at the negociating table, unable to direct anything .....it's the EU which will call the tune......the UK will dance as well as it can.

Sorry,I make you wrong here, and worse is that you seem to be condoning their actions. Gibraltar was and never will be on the table qas a result of Brexit, especially when the residents want nothing to do with Spanish sovereignty. Negotiations must be fair and relevant.

If they don't want to play ball then we can build our relationships and trades with the other 169 countries around the world. No deal is better than a bad deal after all, an outcome BOTH sides will regret.