Hard or Soft Brexit?

[Bielzibubz]

If you think Brexit will reduce the number of EU migrants on these shores then you're going to be sadly mistaken. The majority of those who already live here won't and shouldn't be made to leave. Certain industries rely heavily on EU labour to trade (farming for example) so immigration will continue.

I think the stat was that for every EU migrant that takes from the state, 7 put in.

Besides, what's to stop Spain/France/Portugal following suit and kicking out every ex-pat Brit who make no attempt to integrate or contribute to Spanish/French or Portuguese society? I don't think the NHS could cope with a whole load of pensioners not used to British winters.

Oh don't be such a drama queen. No one is talking about shutting up shop, closing the doors and kicking out those already here. We are talking about control, nothing more, nothing less. That's all. Control and the power to determine who comes here and who stays. It's that simple.

 

[londonblue]

Oh don't be such a drama queen. No one is talking about shutting up shop, closing the doors and kicking out those already here. We are talking about control, nothing more, nothing less. That's all. Control and the power to determine who comes here and who stays. It's that simple.

That's your view, but there are plenty that were. Moreover, it's (ironically) only the House of Lords that are arguing that people already here should have the automatic right to stay, not the Government.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Ohh sarcasm. Very adult of you. Still, no Gaurdian link, that's a bonus. :winking:

Now, on a serious note. You confuse free movement of labour and free movement of people. The two are not the same as well you know. Under current EU regulations which the UK must adhere to it is free movement of 'people'. Not everyone that comes here has either the willingness to assimilate into society and work for a living.

And the free movement of 'people' is all well and good if that country they are moving to is A: big enough in terms of area B: Has a social infrastructure that can cope and C: that country retains the ability to vet and decline entry to those not wanted or needed (ie those with a serious criminal history etc)

Why should there be free movement of people and labor for ALL? Why? Just because life and possibly future prospects may look better somewhere else on the continent why should EVERYONE have an automatic right to come here, regardless of their ability to work and contribute to our society.

FYI,until quite recently the number of people, (like my wife and I), moving to other EU states to work and live was relatively small-no more than 2/3 % of any EU state's nationals were living in other EU states, until the last ten years or so.

Granted in the case of the UK there were various "pull" factors which increased that % of people wanting to come to the UK from other EU states, (the 2006 crash,Blair/Brown's "relaxed attitude" to immigration from the new accession states,the strength of the UK economoy relative to the rest of the EU, etc).

The answer to your "why" question, is that is precisely what the UK government signed up for, back in the 70's.

The idea that the UK,post Brexit,can somehow batten down the hatches and control (ie limit) immigration, simply doesn't stack up in a globalised world.

Meanwhile, the UK has a clear duty to those 3.2 million EU citizens currently working in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/eu-citizens-right-live-uk-citizens-theresa-may

 

[MK Shrimper]

Oh don't be such a drama queen. No one is talking about shutting up shop, closing the doors and kicking out those already here. We are talking about control, nothing more, nothing less. That's all. Control and the power to determine who comes here and who stays. It's that simple.

Who stays? It'll be everyone who's already here BB, and that may not sit well with you & the rest of the OUT brigade, but that's what will happen.

 

[Bielzibubz]

FYI,until quite recently the number of people, (like my wife and I), moving to other EU states to work and live was relatively small-no more than 2/3 % of any EU state's nationals were living in other EU states, until the last ten years or so.

Granted in the case of the UK there were various "pull" factors which increased that % of people wanting to come to the UK from other EU states, (the 2006 crash,Blair/Brown's "relaxed attitude" to immigration from the new accession states,the strength of the UK economoy relative to the rest of the EU, etc).

The answer to your "why" question, is that is precisely what the UK government signed up for, back in the 70's.

The idea that the UK,post Brexit,can somehow batten down the hatches and control (ie limit) immigration, simply doesn't stack up in a globalised world.

Meanwhile, the UK has a clear duty to those 3.2 million EU citizens currently working in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/eu-citizens-right-live-uk-citizens-theresa-may

And it doesn't work. That's why we've voted out. et over it.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Who stays? It'll be everyone who's already here BB, and that may not sit well with you & the rest of the OUT brigade, but that's what will happen.

No, wrong again. We'll be free to deport and repatriate those convicted of a criminal offence far easier than we are now and that person won't find it so easy to get back in. And just so as we're clear. I work with and interview daily, migrants from various EU and non EU countries and I find them predominantly hard working, conscientious, timely and trustworthy. Unfortunately, there are many thousands that have come to these shores that don't come anywhere close to having any of those traits. All I want is the ability for our government to be able to control the flow in and out. Something its hands are tied by at present by EU diktat.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And it doesn't work. That's why we've voted out. et over it.

While nobody would deny that the EU has its faults, 27 other member states are trying to put them right.

Meanwhile, as Yogi said in post 1055, the UK would have appeared to have lost its reputation-perhaps forever-for fair play.

Pity you only picked up on one of the points I made in post 1063.

 

[Bielzibubz]

While nobody would deny that the EU has its faults, 27 other member states are trying to put them right.

Meanwhile, as Yogi said in post 1055, the UK would have appeared to have lost its reputation-perhaps forever-for fair play.

Pity you only picked up on one of the points I made in post 1063.

And as the last two or three decades proves the other 27 nations have failed and continue to fail at putting them right. Another reason the country voted Brexit.

A reputation for fair play doesn't a prosperous and socially cohesive country make.

Many many other countries manage to protect and control their borders in this globalized world whilst also having a policy that welcomes hard working peoples that contribute to their economy and country as a whole. That's what Brexitiers want. A system of control, no more, no less.

Fully agree. I have no truck with the 3.2 million working here. The horse has bolted on that one. Control over who makes up the next 1 million is what's needed. Not an open door policy whereby 2 million come in and only 1 million actively contribute and integrate into society and abide by our laws (figures plucked from the air to make a point)

There, happy now comrad/

 

[londonblue]

A reputation for fair play doesn't a prosperous and socially cohesive country make.

Am I the only one that can see the irony in that?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

GO Boris GO! Invoke article 50 and then evoke the spirit of Thatcher in negociations. Now that's the way towards a good deal for the UK! :smile:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...l-boris-johnson-theresa-may-bbc-a7621456.html

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

As Heseltine correctly pointed out, if the 'remainers' had won the referendum, the 'leavers' wouldn't have conveniently rolled over and died. We're still here and still as firmly opposed to Brexit as ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCteSe7gs1w

 

[Swiss Tony]

As Heseltine correctly pointed out, if the 'remainers' had won the referendum, the 'leavers' wouldn't have conveniently rolled over and died. We're still here and still as firmly opposed to Brexit as ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCteSe7gs1w

wheres here? uk or france.

 

[callan]

As Heseltine correctly pointed out, if the 'remainers' had won the referendum, the 'leavers' wouldn't have conveniently rolled over and died. We're still here and still as firmly opposed to Brexit as ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCteSe7gs1w

Excellent stuff Yogi...not sure what your weird youtube clip has to do with anything but good to hear that the fight back starts off with the now sacked Heseltine.

 

[callan]

While nobody would deny that the EU has its faults, 27 other member states are trying to put them right.

Meanwhile, as Yogi said in post 1055, the UK would have appeared to have lost its reputation-perhaps forever-for fair play.

Pity you only picked up on one of the points I made in post 1063.

Brilliant...how are the putting things right going?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Excellent stuff Yogi...not sure what your weird youtube clip has to do with anything but good to hear that the fight back starts off with the now sacked Heseltine.

Rather than just ridiculing, you, Swiss Tony and other Brexiteers could accept that there other people who have different ideas to yours. The fact that you don't appear to be capable of that surely is a little worrying? The video, amongst other things puts forward the case that such far reaching constitutional changes should never have been accepted by a simple majority. This all changes very little in the great scheme of things but it is my right and similar like-minded people's right, to keep declaring our point of view. Just because the majority of MP's appear to have lost the conviction of what they really believed was best for Britain doesn't mean we all ditch our principles.

 

[Bielzibubz]

We do accept that there are others like yourself that can't abide the thought of the UK leaving the EU. I can accept that you have every right to voice your opinion, however lopsided and wrong i think it is. I also happily accept that whatever links get posted up on here telling us we're all wrong or posts decrying all us Brexiters as morons and eejits with little or no understanding of what's at stake one thing still holds firm. The UK WILL be leaving the corrupt and bureaucratic monstrosity that is the EU :thumbsup:

 

[callan]

Rather than just ridiculing, you, Swiss Tony and other Brexiteers could accept that there other people who have different ideas to yours. The fact that you don't appear to be capable of that surely is a little worrying? The video, amongst other things puts forward the case that such far reaching constitutional changes should never have been accepted by a simple majority. This all changes very little in the great scheme of things but it is my right and similar like-minded people's right, to keep declaring our point of view. Just because the majority of MP's appear to have lost the conviction of what they really believed was best for Britain doesn't mean we all ditch our principles.

Sorry Yogi....however the links you post are so biased and ill thought out at times that they are hard to take seriously.

The latest one you posted from YouTube was so incredibly flawed....that it was hard to resist.

Keep fighting the good fight though��

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

wheres here? uk or france.

Even Nigel Lawson-an ardent Brexiteer- actually lives in France.:winking:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Sorry Yogi....however the links you post are so biased and ill thought out at times that they are hard to take seriously.

The latest one you posted from YouTube was so incredibly flawed....that it was hard to resist.

Keep fighting the good fight though��

The war against Brexit appears, for the moment, to be lost, although the terms of disengagement may well still leave a question over what exactly was actually won. The war carries on, yet the next battle is fundamental for Europe and even more particularly for France. It's to keep Le Pen as far away from the Presidency as possible.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Brilliant...how are the putting things right going?

It's an ongoing process.:winking:

I was interested to see in El Pais this morning that Germany will be contributing a lot more (about x4) to the EU budget after Brexit.

Sounds fair to me.