Hard or Soft Brexit?

[Tangled up in Blue]

You somewhat miss the point. In your statement, you admit or tacitly agree, that immigration numbers are not going to drop significantly in the near future but they will drop. That's the point. Regulated as we are now by EU dictat they will never drop, only increase. By taking back the power and control as to who comes here to work and when, as well as being able to stop those with no intention of working but just see the UK as a meal ticket and a better life we can slowly reduce the social impact of forced migration on the UK as well as keep the economy and labour market full with the skilled labour it requires, wherever that may come from.

Of course, if the UK economy continues to prosper after Brexit -as I imagine most people would hope-then there is little or no real possibility that total "immigration numbers" from the EU or elsewhere will "drop" significantly.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Guess we'll both have to wait and see what comes out of next week's official announcement of the takeover.

No job cuts anywhere. No Guardian link available?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No job cuts anywhere. No Guardian link available?

You'll have to wait until after 2020/1 from what I heard on C4 news last night.:smiles:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39190080

Two further points:

1) While there is existing work at the 2 UK plants until 2020/1,contracts for future investment will come up for renewal from next year ie at the height of Brexit negotiations

2) German and French workers are much more expensive to make redundant than their UK counterparts.

 

[Benfleet A1]

You'll have to wait until after 2020/1 from what I heard on C4 news last night.:smiles:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39190080

Bet you can't wait can you.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Bet you can't wait can you.

See edited post above.Expect some more news from next year.

As you know, PSA have a reputation for cost-cutting.

 

[Benfleet A1]

See edited post above.Expect some more news from next year.

As you know, PSA have a reputation for cost-cutting.

I do and I predict the cuts will be in Germany and Spain.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I do and I predict the cuts will be in Germany and Spain.

Given that some 60%+ of the raw materials used at both the UK's plants come from elsewhere in the EU, your prediction of cuts "in Germany and Spain" rather than in the UK, might have to be revised if the UK has to pay a high price to access the single market after Brexit.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Given that some 60%+ of the raw materials used at both the UK's plants come from elsewhere in the EU, your prediction of cuts "in Germany and Spain" rather than in the UK, might have to be revised if the UK has to pay a high price to access the single market after Brexit.

I know you wish ill on this country at every oppotunity but Peugeot have already said sourcing from this country would be favorable due to the value of the pound. Sorry to disappoint.

 

[Bielzibubz]

When was migration ever "forced?"

Forced in respect that under EU law we can't stop anyone (except criminals in exceptional circumstances) from another EU country upping sticks and coming to the UK regardless of the ability to either integrate or contribute to society.

Forced: enforced, compulsory, obligatory, mandatory, involuntary, exacted, coerced, imposed, demanded, compelled, required, requisite, stipulated, dictated, ordained, prescribed

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I know you wish ill on this country at every oppotunity but Peugeot have already said sourcing from this country would be favorable due to the value of the pound. Sorry to disappoint.

Given that the pound has fallen some 15/20 % since Brexit, that inevitably makes raw materials more expensive to import.That,of course, is before you factor in the cost of higher tarrifs to access the single market in any possible Brexit "deal" or just crashing out of the EU on WT rules in two years time.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what PSA say if I were you,instead focus on what they eventually do.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Forced in respect that under EU law we can't stop anyone (except criminals in exceptional circumstances) from another EU country upping sticks and coming to the UK regardless of the ability to either integrate or contribute to society.

Forced: enforced, compulsory, obligatory, mandatory, involuntary, exacted, coerced, imposed, demanded, compelled, required, requisite, stipulated, dictated, ordained, prescribed

You are familiar with the concept of free movement of labour, I imagine? :unsure:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

For those who continue to complain about 'remoaners' Michael Heseltine has a simple and truthful response...........

“I know these Brexiteers backwards. I have lived with them in government and opposition. They never give up. Why shouldn’t people like me argue in the other camp?”

 

[MK Shrimper]

Forced in respect that under EU law we can't stop anyone (except criminals in exceptional circumstances) from another EU country upping sticks and coming to the UK regardless of the ability to either integrate or contribute to society.

Forced: enforced, compulsory, obligatory, mandatory, involuntary, exacted, coerced, imposed, demanded, compelled, required, requisite, stipulated, dictated, ordained, prescribed

If you think Brexit will reduce the number of EU migrants on these shores then you're going to be sadly mistaken. The majority of those who already live here won't and shouldn't be made to leave. Certain industries rely heavily on EU labour to trade (farming for example) so immigration will continue.

I think the stat was that for every EU migrant that takes from the state, 7 put in.

Besides, what's to stop Spain/France/Portugal following suit and kicking out every ex-pat Brit who make no attempt to integrate or contribute to Spanish/French or Portuguese society? I don't think the NHS could cope with a whole load of pensioners not used to British winters.

 

[Supernaut]

For those who continue to complain about 'remoaners' Michael Heseltine has a simple and truthful response...........

“I know these Brexiteers backwards. I have lived with them in government and opposition. They never give up. Why shouldn’t people like me argue in the other camp?”

Hesletine? God, he's so old. Why should we listen to him? He'll be dead by the time Brexit happens so it won't even affect him :winking:.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

In fact I believe it is quite possible that immigration numbers will fall in the UK but it won't necessarily be due to ending free movement of labour. Since the Brexit vote, such a poisonous zenophobic attitude has been unleashed by some sectors of the media and an albeit small minority of people (enboldened by the leave vote), that many immigrants (including students) will no longer consider the UK as a pleasant and agreeable place to live and work. Perhaps, after all, that is the saddest part of Brexit......the image of Britain has changed for now..........and perhaps for ever.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Given that the pound has fallen some 15/20 % since Brexit, that inevitably makes raw materials more expensive to import.That,of course, is before you factor in the cost of higher tarrifs to access the single market in any possible Brexit "deal" or just crashing out of the EU on WT rules in two years time.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what PSA say if I were you,instead focus on what they eventually do.

Focus like a guardian link you mean. Like any company takeover, you have to take what they say at face value which is what I'm prepared to do. They want to improve on productivity which is understandable and with Luton running at 87% there is obviously room for improvement. I'll try and find production figures for Germany and Spain to back up my prediction.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Given that the pound has fallen some 15/20 % since Brexit, that inevitably makes raw materials more expensive to import.That,of course, is before you factor in the cost of higher tarrifs to access the single market in any possible Brexit "deal" or just crashing out of the EU on WT rules in two years time.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what PSA say if I were you,instead focus on what they eventually do.

A New York Times article about PSA from February ( The Guardian didn't fancy it I suppose) suggests that the most likely candidate for closure is in Spain (Vallerverde near Madrid) As its running at 40% capacity and assembling a crock ( C4 Cactus) they seem more at risk than Ellesmere Port or Luton.

Gutted eh?

 

[londonblue]

If you think Brexit will reduce the number of EU migrants on these shores then you're going to be sadly mistaken. The majority of those who already live here won't and shouldn't be made to leave. Certain industries rely heavily on EU labour to trade (farming for example) so immigration will continue.

I think the stat was that for every EU migrant that takes from the state, 7 put in.

Besides, what's to stop Spain/France/Portugal following suit and kicking out every ex-pat Brit who make no attempt to integrate or contribute to Spanish/French or Portuguese society? I don't think the NHS could cope with a whole load of pensioners not used to British winters, especially when half the NHS workforce go home..

Edited for accuracy.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Focus like a guardian link you mean. Like any company takeover, you have to take what they say at face value which is what I'm prepared to do. They want to improve on productivity which is understandable and with Luton running at 87% there is obviously room for improvement. I'll try and find production figures for Germany and Spain to back up my prediction.

It is, of course, productivity figures, which are much more important than production figures, when talking about the automobile industry or indeed any industry.

Having said that, I'm sure you're not wrong about the small Spanish plant being at risk.

Edit.I doubt if you saw the pictures of Spain's President Rajoy with the other members of the "Big 4" EU leaders earlier this week.

While I'm not a fan of his (or the PP) you can bet he'll fight hard to protect Spain's interests.He has the advantage that Spain is inside the EU club, while the UK wants out.

 

[Bielzibubz]

You are familiar with the concept of free movement of labour, I imagine? :unsure:

Ohh sarcasm. Very adult of you. Still, no Gaurdian link, that's a bonus. :winking:

Now, on a serious note. You confuse free movement of labour and free movement of people. The two are not the same as well you know. Under current EU regulations which the UK must adhere to it is free movement of 'people'. Not everyone that comes here has either the willingness to assimilate into society and work for a living.

And the free movement of 'people' is all well and good if that country they are moving to is A: big enough in terms of area B: Has a social infrastructure that can cope and C: that country retains the ability to vet and decline entry to those not wanted or needed (ie those with a serious criminal history etc)

Why should there be free movement of people and labor for ALL? Why? Just because life and possibly future prospects may look better somewhere else on the continent why should EVERYONE have an automatic right to come here, regardless of their ability to work and contribute to our society.