Hard or Soft Brexit?

[Tangled up in Blue]

Who the **** is he? A big fat nobody with no authority at all. Scaremongering, again.

He is Gianni Pittella, leader of the socialist group in the European parliament, "who will play a significant role in shaping the EU’s negotiating stance."

 

[Benfleet A1]

He is Gianni Pittella, leader of the socialist group in the European parliament, "who will play a significant role in shaping the EU’s negotiating stance."

Bollocks, don't act like you know his life story. You hadn't heard of him before that article anymore than I had. Bored now, toodles.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Bollocks, don't act like you know his life story. You hadn't heard of him before that article anymore than I had. Bored now, toodles.

You can check out his "life story" here.:winking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianni_Pittella

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The divorce settlement looks as if it is going to make or break the UK's relationship with the EU and from what I understand, it is one of the first things to be sorted after article 50 is invoked.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ners-theresa-may-guarantee-eu-citizens-rights

See even that (not so) nice Michael Gove wants EU citizens right to remain in the UK after Brexit to be guaranteed.

Time for a unilateral declaration by Mrs May's Tory government to that effect I think.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...n-brexit-uk-has-made-bad-choice-at-bad-moment

No more "perks" for the UK after Brexit according to Hollande.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39175740

"the deal has raised fears about job losses at Vauxhall."

Sign of things to come?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

All these things about perks and Vauxhall jobs are surely a side issue. Each side remain/leave will find articles to back up claims that Brexit will be a disaster or, alternatively the saviour of Britain as an independent nation. Although, of course, I'd agree with Hollande that the UK made a bad choice at a bad moment.
The real issue is what kind of Brexit is going to be achieved. Sometimes the messages one receives from the UK government and media can be rather confused but more and more I'm coming to the impression that we are being pushed closer and closer towards a very hard Brexit. The UK have not exactly gone about currying favour with those whom we are about to negociate. There sounds more a tone of menace than conciliation............"if we don't get what we want, we'll walk away," Some will say, this is just posturing before negociations get under way.........but I'm not so sure.
The questions we should be starting to ask are:

1) Who are the real forces behind the movement towards a very hard Brexit?
2) How would they benefit if a hard Brexit was achieved?
3) Are these people politically or economically motivated?
4) What kind of Britain will we end up with in an 'off the cliff' Brexit? (Davis has talked the talk but he's been very vague
on the detail).
5) If Britain is going to be transformed into a country that none of us would recognise, surely that is outside the remit of
the original referendum vote?

 

[londonblue]

All these things about perks and Vauxhall jobs are surely a side issue. Each side remain/leave will find articles to back up claims that Brexit will be a disaster or, alternatively the saviour of Britain as an independent nation. Although, of course, I'd agree with Hollande that the UK made a bad choice at a bad moment.
The real issue is what kind of Brexit is going to be achieved. Sometimes the messages one receives from the UK government and media can be rather confused but more and more I'm coming to the impression that we are being pushed closer and closer towards a very hard Brexit. The UK have not exactly gone about currying favour with those whom we are about to negociate. There sounds more a tone of menace than conciliation............"if we don't get what we want, we'll walk away," Some will say, this is just posturing before negociations get under way.........but I'm not so sure.
The questions we should be starting to ask are:

1) Who are the real forces behind the movement towards a very hard Brexit?
2) How would they benefit if a hard Brexit was achieved?
3) Are these people politically or economically motivated?
4) What kind of Britain will we end up with in an 'off the cliff' Brexit? (Davis has talked the talk but he's been very vague
on the detail).
5) If Britain is going to be transformed into a country that none of us would recognise, surely that is outside the remit of
the original referendum vote?

I think 3 should actually read:

3) Are these people politically, economically or personally motivated?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'd say that Brexit has already had an impact on the UK, in that "Spreadsheet " Phil has admitted that's he's holding back funds,which could be used to provide the NHS with a cash injection, in favour of building up an emergency fund to finance the costs of Brexit.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Certainly don't have any first hand experience but as someone who lived in Brum for three years and follows economics and politics attentively,I'm well aware of its importance to UK industry.As it happens, I've also been doing company classes with Superwagen,Sabadell www.superwagen.com for some years now.

Fortunately I'm sure that, like your politics, the British Automotive industry hasn't changed since the 1970s.

All these things about perks and Vauxhall jobs are surely a side issue. Each side remain/leave will find articles to back up claims that Brexit will be a disaster or, alternatively the saviour of Britain as an independent nation. Although, of course, I'd agree with Hollande that the UK made a bad choice at a bad moment.
The real issue is what kind of Brexit is going to be achieved. Sometimes the messages one receives from the UK government and media can be rather confused but more and more I'm coming to the impression that we are being pushed closer and closer towards a very hard Brexit. The UK have not exactly gone about currying favour with those whom we are about to negociate. There sounds more a tone of menace than conciliation............"if we don't get what we want, we'll walk away," Some will say, this is just posturing before negociations get under way.........but I'm not so sure.
The questions we should be starting to ask are:

1) Who are the real forces behind the movement towards a very hard Brexit?
2) How would they benefit if a hard Brexit was achieved?
3) Are these people politically or economically motivated?
4) What kind of Britain will we end up with in an 'off the cliff' Brexit? (Davis has talked the talk but he's been very vague
on the detail).
5) If Britain is going to be transformed into a country that none of us would recognise, surely that is outside the remit of
the original referendum vote?

The Hard Brexit talk is just posturing. A deal will get done. It will be on less advantageous terms than we currently enjoy - the talks will decide just how much more disadvantaged we will be. It will involve transitional arrangements that last for years.

 

[leeblue]

The German car industry.......exports to UK....18 billion euros. Hands up anyone who thinks that will be messed with by the united States of Germany. That's just the tip of the iceberg. A deal will be done if for no other reason than the massive loss a hard Brexit will be to the euro zone finances.....just a thought.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The German car industry.......exports to UK....18 billion euros. Hands up anyone who thinks that will be messed with by the united States of Germany. That's just the tip of the iceberg. A deal will be done if for no other reason than the massive loss a hard Brexit will be to the euro zone finances.....just a thought.

Of course, failure to reach a deal would not stop exports and imports, they would just be liable to tarrifs.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Fortunately I'm sure that, like your politics, the British Automotive industry hasn't changed since the 1970s.



The Hard Brexit talk is just posturing. A deal will get done. It will be on less advantageous terms than we currently enjoy - the talks will decide just how much more disadvantaged we will be. It will involve transitional arrangements that last for years.

If we are going to commit ourselves to a deal with the EU (with whatever that may entail) which, in your opinion, will not be as advantageous as the one we have at present. If as is being said, immigrant numbers are not going to drop significantly in the near future. Aren't some people going to be asking, what are the actual benefits of leaving the EU?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Fortunately I'm sure that, like your politics, the British Automotive industry hasn't changed since the 1970s.

Actually,the British car industry has changed a great deal since the 1970's.Though you're quite right to point out that my politics hasn't. :winking:

The Hard Brexit talk is just posturing. A deal will get done. It will be on less advantageous terms than we currently enjoy - the talks will decide just how much more disadvantaged we will be

. It will involve transitional arrangements that last for years

.

Agree with this.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

If we are going to commit ourselves to a deal with the EU (with whatever that may entail) which, in your opinion, will not be as advantageous as the one we have at present. If as is being said, immigrant numbers are not going to drop significantly in the near future. Aren't some people going to be asking, what are the actual benefits of leaving the EU?

Yes and that changes things how?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yes and that changes things how?

A lot of people who voted for Brexit are going to feel betrayed.

 

[Bielzibubz]

If we are going to commit ourselves to a deal with the EU (with whatever that may entail) which, in your opinion, will not be as advantageous as the one we have at present. If as is being said, immigrant numbers are not going to drop significantly in the near future. Aren't some people going to be asking, what are the actual benefits of leaving the EU?

You somewhat miss the point. In your statement, you admit or tacitly agree, that immigration numbers are not going to drop significantly in the near future but they will drop. That's the point. Regulated as we are now by EU dictat they will never drop, only increase. By taking back the power and control as to who comes here to work and when, as well as being able to stop those with no intention of working but just see the UK as a meal ticket and a better life we can slowly reduce the social impact of forced migration on the UK as well as keep the economy and labour market full with the skilled labour it requires, wherever that may come from.

 

[MK Shrimper]

You somewhat miss the point. In your statement, you admit or tacitly agree, that immigration numbers are not going to drop significantly in the near future but they will drop. That's the point. Regulated as we are now by EU dictat they will never drop, only increase. By taking back the power and control as to who comes here to work and when, as well as being able to stop those with no intention of working but just see the UK as a meal ticket and a better life we can slowly reduce the social impact of forced migration on the UK as well as keep the economy and labour market full with the skilled labour it requires, wherever that may come from.

When was migration ever "forced?"

 

[londonblue]

You somewhat miss the point. In your statement, you admit or tacitly agree, that immigration numbers are not going to drop significantly in the near future but they will drop. That's the point. Regulated as we are now by EU dictat they will never drop, only increase. By taking back the power and control as to who comes here to work and when, as well as being able to stop those with no intention of working but just see the UK as a meal ticket and a better life we can slowly reduce the social impact of forced migration on the UK as well as keep the economy and labour market full with the skilled labour it requires, wherever that may come from.

Can you show me where, in any of the EU treaties, it says that people have to come to the UK so our net migration has to increase?