Hard or Soft Brexit?

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Come on *** don't keep the big secret all to your self. What are Labours plans for Brexit.

to do everything they can to get the government to say what the plan is, then to scrutinise it. Part 2 relies on part 1. Part 1 is the government knowing what their plan is. Why anyone would be concerned about the opposition's exit policy when we don't know what the government's exit policy is crazy level of wonky priorities.

Don't worry about the guy who wants the gun, worry about the guy who has the gun.

 

[rigsby]

to do everything they can to get the government to say what the plan is, then to scrutinise it. Part 2 relies on part 1. Part 1 is the government knowing what their plan is. Why anyone would be concerned about the opposition's exit policy when we don't know what the government's exit policy is crazy level of wonky priorities.

Don't worry about the guy who wants the gun, worry about the guy who has the gun.

So your usual waffle and Tory blaming with no answers then. You should represent Labour on Question time.

In my younger days I used to do a bit of shooting, I used to own a shot gun. I have never had to worry about anyone who had a gun but if someone looking like JC had ever approached us and asked to borrow one our guns......Hmmmm

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

The point is surely that 48% of the population voted to remain.Add those "leave" voters who would prefer a soft Brexit and you have a probable majority for the soft Brexit option,which I don't think will be possible.

I have read copious amount about Leave voters not knowing what they were voting for BUT I have yet to read that remainers knew what they were voting for, or why?
Did they vote Remain freely or through fear? were they voting for Turkey? I hope my sample of possibles example that the referendum question was certainly (and probably necessarily) very simple.
However a majority is larger and the "winner" in a straight poll count.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

We respect the will of the people BUT we want soft Brexit. I agree with you there is no such thing. I didn't just vote out, I voted out out.

You and Corbyn might have voted out out, but you need to respect the wishes of leave voters like Nigel Farage, Dan Hannan, Arron Banks who wanted a Norway type solution.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

2 things I never take any notice of are 1) The Guardian 2) Diane Abbott. Having worked in the Bethnal Green area during the 90's, I no how useless she is. Just to remind you she said it was wrong for black people to be nursed by blond haired, blue eyed woman. Apparently they wouldn't understand 'black issues'

We respect the will of the people BUT we want soft Brexit. I agree with you there is no such thing. I didn't just vote out, I voted out out.

It seems Diane doesn't understand the whole of our countries issues. Which is why it will get a whole lot worse for Labour.

At 16% points below the Tories atm,that's rather unlikely I think.

You and Corbyn might have voted out out, but you need to respect the wishes of leave voters like Nigel Farage, Dan Hannan, Arron Banks who wanted a Norway type solution.

A Norway solution woyuld be wonderful but I don't think it's going to happen.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

At 16% points below the Tories atm,that's rather unlikely I think.



A Norway solution woyuld be wonderful but I don't think it's going to happen.

A Norway solution would not be wonderful. Whilst nowhere near as damaging as a hard Brexit it would still be a loss of sovereignty and influence compared to what we currently have.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So your usual waffle and Tory blaming with no answers then. You should represent Labour on Question time.

In my younger days I used to do a bit of shooting, I used to own a shot gun. I have never had to worry about anyone who had a gun but if someone looking like JC had ever approached us and asked to borrow one our guns......Hmmmm

I know, I know, I know - it's crazy that I am:

blaming the Tories for the referendum on leaving the EU


blaming the Tories for not having an advance plan for if the result was for us to leave the EU


blaming the Tories for not having a plan for us to leave the EU nearly six months after the referendum


blaming the Tories for imposing another delay on plans to leave the EU by taking a case to the Supreme Court to stop MPs having a say on the details of leaving the EU


blaming the Tories for banning a recent member of the cabinet from meetings about the EU for comments about the PM's trousers


what was I thinking, why would I blame the Tories for these things?

 

[rigsby]

I know, I know, I know - it's crazy that I am:

blaming the Tories for the referendum on leaving the EU


blaming the Tories for not having an advance plan for if the result was for us to leave the EU


blaming the Tories for not having a plan for us to leave the EU nearly six months after the referendum


blaming the Tories for imposing another delay on plans to leave the EU by taking a case to the Supreme Court to stop MPs having a say on the details of leaving the EU


blaming the Tories for banning a recent member of the cabinet from meetings about the EU for comments about the PM's trousers


what was I thinking, why would I blame the Tories for these things?

As I say you can't come up with a single answer. You can't even accept democracy, how left wing of you.

Who will you blame when Labour have their biggest loss in GE history.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

As I say you can't come up with a single answer. You can't even accept democracy, how left wing of you.

Who will you blame when Labour have their biggest loss in GE history.

unbelievable that you are more concerned with Labour's potential vote in 2020 that you are with the government's handling of the EU exit - anyone would think you are having regrets.....

Prior to the referendum - no plan
During to the referendum - no plan
After to the referendum - no plan

'look over there - what are Labour up to?'
'do you think anyone has noticed that we are in charge and we have no plan?'
'Not if we keep pointing at Labour, buy a bit more time'

 

[rigsby]

unbelievable that you are more concerned with Labour's potential vote in 2020 that you are with the government's handling of the EU exit - anyone would think you are having regrets.....

Prior to the referendum - no plan
During to the referendum - no plan
After to the referendum - no plan

'look over there - what are Labour up to?'
'do you think anyone has noticed that we are in charge and we have no plan?'
'Not if we keep pointing at Labour, buy a bit more time'

At last your pointing out Labour's failings. At least that's a start.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

As I say you can't come up with a single answer. You can't even accept democracy, how left wing of you.

Who will you blame when Labour have their biggest loss in GE history.

Does this mean you support a second referendum on the outcome of the negotiations?

After all, what our future looks like outside of the EU isn't something that we have had the opportunity to vote on. Moreover, the more democratic EU at least requires the elected European Parliament to ratify such an agreement.

It's within Parliament's power to require any agreement to be ratified by a second referendum asking whether we'd prefer to accept the deal the government comes up with or just remain on existing terms.

If you're so confident that the government will get a better deal and are such an ardent democrat, why would you not want to legitimise it in this way?

 

[rigsby]

Does this mean you support a second referendum on the outcome of the negotiations?

After all, what our future looks like outside of the EU isn't something that we have had the opportunity to vote on. Moreover, the more democratic EU at least requires the elected European Parliament to ratify such an agreement.

It's within Parliament's power to require any agreement to be ratified by a second referendum asking whether we'd prefer to accept the deal the government comes up with or just remain on existing terms.

If you're so confident that the government will get a better deal and are such an ardent democrat, why would you not want to legitimise it in this way?

Yes we did on the 23rd of June and we chose out. You just need to except the result.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Yes we did on the 23rd of June and we chose out. You just need to except the result.

I'm willing to except the result.

You don't have the courage of your convictions.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

In fact all this argument is from a very British point of view. When it comes down to the nitty gritty the UK will probably have one of two choices. It can either accept a soft Brexit, which will involve many of the conditions Brexiters could not stomach..........effectively an a association with the EU giving access to the single market but not affording the freedom Brexiters are seeking. In short, a situation worse than the one we presently benefit from. Failing that it will be a quick and hard divorce which, from what I understand, the EU would prefer.
The UK has always mistakenly, in my opinion, believed that economic arguments would secure them a favourable exiting deal. I've never bought this argument, for me and I think the rest of the EU, it will in the end be political considerations which will prevail.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

A Tory who speaks good sense................whatever next?! :winking:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ep-former-tory-cabinet-minister-a7473756.html

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

No dividing and conquering then.

http://news.sky.com/story/european-...nted-chief-brexit-negotiator-with-uk-10695655

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38324146

Looks like Brexit might now take 10 years to negotiate.

Great suits me fine.:thumbsup:

 

[rigsby]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38324146

Looks like Brexit might now take 10 years to negotiate.

Great suits me fine.:thumbsup:

The EU will of course have collapsed by then.

Be interesting to see if you stay in Spain and take the pain. Or suddenly start to miss the best country in the world and come back with your tail between your legs and admit that us Brexiters were right all along :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The EU will of course have collapsed by then

.

Fancy a tenner on that? Loser pays SZ.

Be interesting to see if you stay in Spain and take the pain. Or suddenly start to miss the best country in the world and come back with your tail between your legs and admit that us Brexiters were right all along :winking:

No chance of my ever coming back permanently, (which I'm sure will please YB and perhaps some others).:winking:

You might be interested to read some of these EU expats' fears about Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/15/britons-expats-europe-how-brexit-affect-them

 

[rigsby]

Fancy a tenner on that? Loser pays SZ.



No chance of my ever coming back permanently, (which I'm sure will please YB and perhaps some others).:winking:

You might be interested to read some of these EU expats' fears about Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/15/britons-expats-europe-how-brexit-affect-them

Yes I'm in for a tenner.

How typical of the Guardian. Selfish ex-pats who left Britain behind now moaning because they can't vote. Well hard luck you made your choice and stuck to fingers up to the rest of us who have to work ever harder to pay your pensions and to prop up countries like Spain so that you don't have to.

Me, I cashed in 25% of my pension so that I could start a business here in Southend which now employs local people. That's why I get a say in Britain's future and you lot don't. My friends parents cashed in their house and blew all their money in the sunshine. When his dad died, the mum returned and is now living in a flat in Eastwood on benefits. We (not you) will pay even more for her when she goes in a home.

That's one costly scam that we could stop after Brexit.