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Hard or Soft Brexit?

Forums New posts

What should happen?

  • Hard Brexit

    Votes: 31 46.3%

  • Soft Brexit

    Votes: 9 13.4%

  • Another referendum on the terms of the Brexit deal

    Votes: 14 20.9%

  • Forget it all and remain

    Votes: 11 16.4%

  • Bart

    Votes: 2 3.0%
  • Total voters
    67
Tangled up in Blue said:
Even if it doesn't, it was the right thing to do at the time.Though some of the bankers concerned should have been jailed.
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No it wasn't. It was the ONLY thing that could be done. And they new it. That didn't make it right. That's partly why we ended up in the sorry situation in the first place.

Anyway, back on topic.
 
londonblue said:
Don't forget that money will eventually be clawed back when the shares the government bought are sold, which has already started. It was an investment, and might actually make money in the long run.
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Bielzibubz said:
True, as of last year the Government had recouped just £22 billion of the estimated £124 billion 'invested' in RBS and Lloyds. Of course that's just a small part of the total £850 billion spent in guarantees and finance deals according to The National Audit Office.
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I think most of us would expect to make money if we had £124 billion to in vest. In fact if you put it in a post office savings account in 2008 you would have made more that £22 billion.

I'm sure it will be proved in years to come that just like many of the other 'Banking crisis' in the last 150 years they are manufactured for a reason.
 
rigsby said:
I think most of us would expect to make money if we had £124 billion to in vest. In fact if you put it in a post office savings account in 2008 you would have made more that £22 billion.

I'm sure it will be proved in years to come that just like many of the other 'Banking crisis' in the last 150 years they are manufactured for a reason.
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As could be the same for Brexit. Yes it 'may' cost £50 billion but in the years to come we 'may' recoup that and much more in extra revenue from being able to trade freely with the rest of the worlds markets. Who knows? No one, certainly not you or I. Everything is speculation. Who knows what the worlds markets will be like in five years time. There are so many if's, but's and maybe's that lie ahead it's impossible to even attempt to gauge what Brexit may or may not cost long term. That's the gamble you take when siding with an unknown. That's the decision I took taking everything I could find and understand into account and not wanting to stick with what we knew already and had put up with over the years.
 
Bielzibubz said:
No it wasn't. It was the ONLY thing that could be done. And they new it. That didn't make it right. That's partly why we ended up in the sorry situation in the first place.

Anyway, back on topic.
Click to expand...

:nope: Labour could have just let the banks concerned fail.

Let me just remind you that Cameron and Boy George (at the time) supported Darling's action.

As for your last comment, you're clearly mistaking cause and consequence.The banks failed as a result of the global crisis in 2007/8 not the other way round.

Unless, of course, you're suggesting that UK High Street banks caused the world wide economic crisis in the first place? :hilarious:
 
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Bielzibubz said:
As could be the same for Brexit. Yes it 'may' cost £50 billion but in the years to come we 'may' recoup that and much more in extra revenue from being able to trade freely with the rest of the worlds markets. Who knows? No one, certainly not you or I. Everything is speculation. Who knows what the worlds markets will be like in five years time. There are so many if's, but's and maybe's that lie ahead it's impossible to even attempt to gauge what Brexit may or may not cost long term. That's the gamble you take when siding with an unknown. That's the decision I took taking everything I could find and understand into account and not wanting to stick with what we knew already and had put up with over the years.
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As Jeremy Corbyn stated when speaking about a possible 'Grexit'; Greece's future would be uncertain, but at least it would be its own. He was right you know...
 
mrsblue said:
Very true

As far as I'm aware not one single banker has been jailed for the mammoth fraud.

britjusticeatitsbest
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For once I can actually agree with you, weren't Iceland rather more severe with their errant bankers? Where are those American bankers who were irresponsible enough to make loans with no securities, thus engineering the crash in 2008? Those bankers who were also rather quicker on the uptake to put families out on the street when they faulted on those very loans. Are they in jail??? NO!!! A number of them have been brought in to serve in Trump's new administration.:sad:
 
yogi bear up the cagire said:
For once I can actually agree with you, weren't Iceland rather more severe with their errant bankers? Where are those American bankers who were irresponsible enough to make loans with no securities, thus engineering the crash in 2008? Those bankers who were also rather quicker on the uptake to put families out on the street when they faulted on those very loans. Are they in jail??? NO!!! A number of them have been brought in to serve in Trump's new administration.:sad:
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You're quite right.Check out the excellent documentary on this narrated by Mat Damon,Inside Job.(2010)
 
Tangled up in Blue said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38336977

This morning's BBC news.

I see Mrs May wants an early deal for those GB citizens living in the UK.Good.There should also be a similar deal for the estimated 2.3 million European citizens living in the UK.

Let me stress I don't have a dog in this fight,as someone who's lived in Spain for more than ten years now, I'd be full entitled to apply for (and almost certainly get) Spanish nationality.
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**Gets on knees and prays for a miricle**
 
yogi bear up the cagire said:
Where are those American bankers who were irresponsible enough to make loans with no securities, thus engineering the crash in 2008?
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The loans were primarily sub-prime mortgages. These by definition take security, in the form of a mortgage over the home.

Whilst it is convenient to just blame the bankers, it takes two to tango. The banks didn't force borrowers to take out mortgages that they couldn't afford.

So whilst looking at blame you might also want to look at not just the banks, but the borrowers and also the role of mortgage brokers and the rating agencies, none of whom covered themselves with glory.

Those bankers who were also rather quicker on the uptake to put families out on the street when they faulted on those very loans.
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I'm not sure if this was the case. My understanding was that the banks didn't foreclose as much as in previous recessions (albeit due to a lack of liquidity in the housing market rather than out of any compassion). These were the so called toxic loans.

Are they in jail??? NO!!! A number of them have been brought in to serve in Trump's new administration.:sad:
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I suspect most of the fraud wasn't carried out by the banks, but lower down the food chain. Specifically those who lied on their mortgage applications and the mortgage brokers who encouraged and facilitated it. The banks were probably the victims of fraud!

Even in Iceland, I'm not sure how many of the prosecutions were to do with fraud that caused the banking collapse as opposed to other offences, especially around attempting to prop up the bank after it got into difficulty.

If you want to look at banking criminality, I suggest you look far more at things like money-laundering and LIBOR manipulation than the actual sub-prime crash. Ironically these haven't really destabilised the system (other than to the extent laundered money has fuelled the UK housing boom).
 
Tangled up in Blue said:
:nope: Labour could have just let the banks concerned fail.

Let me just remind you that Cameron and Boy George (at the time) supported Darling's action.

As for your last comment, you're clearly mistaking cause and consequence.The banks failed as a result of the global crisis in 2007/8 not the other way round.

Unless, of course, you're suggesting that UK High Street banks caused the world wide economic crisis in the first place? :hilarious:
Click to expand...

And you're clearly talking out of your backside. I clearly wasn't suggesting for one minute the UK banks caused any such thing. Please understand what's written in other peoples posts before engaging fingers.

From Lord Adair Turner, former head of the FSA speaking in 2013 “The financial crisis of 2007 to 2008 occurred because we failed to constrain the financial system’s creation of private credit and money.”

The banks failed because of years of irresponsible trading, investments and dangerous speculation. The overall financial crisis happened because banks were able to create too much money, too quickly, and used it to push up house prices and speculate on financial markets. That's why we ended up in the sorry state of having to bail them out.
 
Tangled up in Blue said:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/17/brexit-price-hikes-push-up-cost-christmas-britons

It's official.Xmas costs more because of Brexit.
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Ohhhhhhh woe is me :'(:'(:'( Christmas is ruined :'( Perhaps I should have voted remain instead. After all the £30.00 extra it's cost me this month (I made that figure up by the way) is just too much to bare. The thought of a cheaper Tesco own brand Xmas pud this year instead of the usual Waitrose fare just fills me with dread :'( I just can't bring myself to spend a little less on presents this year, it's just not me :'( Sarcasm by the way, before you take it literally :unsure:

Get a grip man :hilarious: If that's all can dredge up from you're beloved Gaurdian rag (do you ever read and post stories from anywhere else I wonder) then there's very little hope left for you I'm afraid and it's time to retire from constructive on line debate :winking:
 
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