Hard or Soft Brexit?

[Benfleet A1]

doesn't the opposite happen and a lot of old people move to Spain and use their resources?

Nope, the NHS is paying for it.

 

[Swiss Tony]

You seem to forget that I'm the proud holder of a British passport.:raspberry:

So that would make you one very lucky man and quiet right to be proud, after all it's the greatest nation on earth and soon to be free of those chaps across the channel.:thumbsup:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Nope, the NHS is paying for it.

so more UK OAPs are moving back to the UK than the amount that move out their?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So that would make you one very lucky man and quiet right to be proud, after all it's the greatest nation on earth and soon to be free of those chaps across the channel.:thumbsup:

Actually, there will eventually be a deal that fully recognises the right of British nationals (like me) already living abroad in other EU countries and respects the same rights of other EU nationals, already living in the UK.

Hopefully,this will be the first item that will be successfully negotiated next year, after the continuation of the Erasmus programme.

Atm,it's just a disgraceful "bargaining chip" whereby the Tory government has so far refused to recognise these reciprocal rights before the EU shows its own hand.

With regard to your last point,about so called "health tourism," I seem to remember reading recently, that it accounts for less than 1% of the NHS's budget.

The solution to the NHS's financial problems won't be provided by the UK leaving the EU.Only by massively increased future spending.That of course will not alleviate the pressure on the NHS caused by EU nationals not being allowed to cover staffing vacancies with respect to Nurses,Doctors etc

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Nope, the NHS is paying for it.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.Ask Mrs Blue.:dunce:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That will be the ultimate consequence of leaving the EU.

Again, you just don't get it do you TUIB. In you're opinion, that's all. No one knows what lies ahead.

All the current economic forecasts from the Bank of England,the IMF and the OBR predict this will happen.

Forecasts. There, you said it yourself. Nothing more. All of those you mention have been way off the mark so far and could be again. It's conjecture, no more.

Since no country has left the EU before, obviously there can be no precedent (or "facts") for the UK's situation.

Thank you. At last you've acknowledged there are no 'facts' and you could be oh so very wrong.

Expect the EU's negotiators to screw us to the wall from next March.

I expect nothing of the like. I expect that once those individual countries negotiators get round the table they will do what's best for themselves and their people and not what's best for the collective European good.

Roll on March 2017 and let's get this party started

A little history lesson for you, (and some of your fellow Brexiteers on SZ).

IMO and FWIW,the last time the UK had to face a remotely comparable negotiation, (in terms of difficulty at least), was at the end of WW2,when the Americans pulled out of the Lend-Lease agreement, (which effectively bankrolled Britain's war effort),within a week of the ending of the war in Asia,without any prior warning.

Keynes et al, (including some of the most prominent members of Attlee's post WW2 Labour government), were forced to accept a much needed loan of 5 billion dollars at a highly competitive interest rate in 1945, which was only finally paid off in the early years of Tony Blair's governments,after 1997.

That would seem to be the sort of "party" you're looking forward to.

 

[rigsby]

A little history lesson for you, (and some of your fellow Brexiteers on SZ).

IMO and FWIW,the last time the UK had to face a remotely comparable negotiation, (in terms of difficulty at least), was at the end of WW2,when the Americans pulled out of the Lend-Lease agreement, (which effectively bankrolled Britain's war effort),within a week of the ending of the war in Asia,without any prior warning.

Keynes et al, (including some of the most prominent members of Attlee's post WW2 Labour government), were forced to accept a much needed loan of 5 billion dollars at a highly competitive interest rate in 1945, which was only finally paid off in the early years of Tony Blair's governments,after 1997.

That would seem to be the sort of "party" you're looking forward to.

Talking of history are you forgetting about Marshal Aid as you did a few years ago on another thread. Many people claim that the late 40's early 50's were the best ever period for economic growth in Europe......So we have lots to look forward to

By the way if you must compare us with the WW2 era, we are more like 1938. You blind Europeans just can't see the storm coming your way.

Remember back in June one of the great remain lies was Turkey will not be allowed to join. Well turns out behind the scenes, the EU were fast tracking the process to allow them in. However after your old mate president Erdogan started rounding up teachers and journalists and threatening them with a death sentence it seems the EU have stalled a bit. So Mr Erdogan just threatened to open his borders with Bulgaria and let millions of migrants into Europe.

So we can let Turkey join and all their migrants can be part of the EU legally or we can refuse and they will be allowed here illegally via that wonderful recent addition....Bulgaria.

Which option do you think works best ? After all they will be your problem not ours, very soon.

 

[Bielzibubz]

A little history lesson for you, (and some of your fellow Brexiteers on SZ).

IMO and FWIW,the last time the UK had to face a remotely comparable negotiation, (in terms of difficulty at least), was at the end of WW2,when the Americans pulled out of the Lend-Lease agreement, (which effectively bankrolled Britain's war effort),within a week of the ending of the war in Asia,without any prior warning.

Keynes et al, (including some of the most prominent members of Attlee's post WW2 Labour government), were forced to accept a much needed loan of 5 billion dollars at a highly competitive interest rate in 1945, which was only finally paid off in the early years of Tony Blair's governments,after 1997.

That would seem to be the sort of "party" you're looking forward to.

And you do it again. 'A little history lesson for you'.......No it's not. As you admit it's your opinion. Nothing more.

You're seriously comparing a scenario that occurred over 70 years ago to one that hasn't even panned out yet? You beggar belief you really do. The two are totally different financial, social and political situations. The two aren't even close in comparability.

Try again. You're attempt at making yourself look more intelligent with a quick scan through Wikipedia with daft statements like this only serves to reinforce the belief held by many on here that you're just and old rabid socialist that can't come to terms with the world today.

 

[Gremlin]

Leaving the EU, (on whatever terms), will be the greatest mistake any British government has made in my lifetime.

You would do well to remember that politicians are here to serve the people. Since the result of the vote was to leave the European Union - leaving the European Union cannot be considered a mistake at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[Benfleet A1]

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.Ask Mrs Blue.:dunce:

And you so clearly do.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You would do well to remember that politicians are here to serve the people. Since the result of the vote was to leave the European Union - leaving the European Union cannot be considered a mistake at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

My issue with the referendum is that it was a 'what do you think at this particular time' vote, but the effects of the result effect generations. All votes only effect how people feel on that day but the result is usually a government for the next 5 years.


The effects of the referendum are so far reaching that I feel that there shouldn't have been a vote unless there was a large majority of people wanting to leave and that majority was in evidence for a couple of years rather than the polls that we had that were slight variations on 50/50.


There is a strong possibility that the result will cost the country hundreds of billions of pounds, and baring in mind the politicians that serve us gave us a choice of WW3 or being £350 million a week better off - the referendum was a massive mistake because it was run on false pretences.


I'm alright Jack because I am of an age where this won't impact on me too much, but my children will be massively effected by the finances of the country and it comes down to a result that seemed unlikely other than on that particular day and based on a choice from two sets of lies.


Politicians do serve us and they owe us big time for the way they have conducted this. For all politicians to do their job and have a say in the nature of us leaving is essential. May was not elected PM and not even elected leader of her party but got both jobs by default. The notion that she should dictate how we leave unaudited by parliament is crazy. Now is the time for all MPs that serve us to stand up to the challenge and make leaving the EU work, not for an unelected PM to crack on with 'Brexit means Brexit' and then quit like Cameron when it goes tits up. We shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket - May is answerable to Parliament and Parliament is answerable to us.

 

[Gremlin]

My issue with the referendum is that it was a 'what do you think at this particular time' vote, but the effects of the result effect generations. All votes only effect how people feel on that day but the result is usually a government for the next 5 years.


The effects of the referendum are so far reaching that I feel that there shouldn't have been a vote unless there was a large majority of people wanting to leave and that majority was in evidence for a couple of years rather than the polls that we had that were slight variations on 50/50.


There is a strong possibility that the result will cost the country hundreds of billions of pounds, and baring in mind the politicians that serve us gave us a choice of WW3 or being £350 million a week better off - the referendum was a massive mistake because it was run on false pretences.


I'm alright Jack because I am of an age where this won't impact on me too much, but my children will be massively effected by the finances of the country and it comes down to a result that seemed unlikely other than on that particular day and based on a choice from two sets of lies.


Politicians do serve us and they owe us big time for the way they have conducted this. For all politicians to do their job and have a say in the nature of us leaving is essential. May was not elected PM and not even elected leader of her party but got both jobs by default. The notion that she should dictate how we leave unaudited by parliament is crazy. Now is the time for all MPs that serve us to stand up to the challenge and make leaving the EU work, not for an unelected PM to crack on with 'Brexit means Brexit' and then quit like Cameron when it goes tits up. We shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket - May is answerable to Parliament and Parliament is answerable to us.

Yeah yeah, you don't like it, the message is clear. But even five months of whinging doesn't make it a mistake to deliver the will of the people.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yeah yeah, you don't like it, the message is clear. But even five months of whinging doesn't make it a mistake to deliver the will of the people.

And the winner of political analysis of the year goes to.....

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And you do it again. 'A little history lesson for you'.......No it's not. As you admit it's your opinion. Nothing more.

You're seriously comparing a scenario that occurred over 70 years ago to one that hasn't even panned out yet? You beggar belief you really do. The two are totally different financial, social and political situations. The two aren't even close in comparability.

Oh yes they are.Granted we're not applying to the EU for a loan (and remember how well that worked for Greece).Otherwise they're both negotiations.Everyone accepts there will be a high price to pay for leaving the EU, (whether it's a soft /hard Brexit)."Spreadsheet Phi"l has already borrowed millions on the basis of the OBS's latest forecast and there will be more borrowing to come.The Tories economic policy is in shreds -remember that pledge to eliminate the deficit in one parliamentary term back in 2010?

Try again. You're attempt at making yourself look more intelligent with a quick scan through Wikipedia with daft statements like this only serves to reinforce the belief held by many on here that you're just and old rabid socialist that can't come to terms with the world today.

Actually,the information about the Lend-Lease deal comes from John Bew's biography of Attlee.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Talking of history are you forgetting about Marshal Aid as you did a few years ago on another thread. Many people claim that the late 40's early 50's were the best ever period for economic growth in Europe......So we have lots to look forward to

By the way if you must compare us with the WW2 era, we are more like 1938. You blind Europeans just can't see the storm coming your way.

Remember back in June one of the great remain lies was Turkey will not be allowed to join. Well turns out behind the scenes, the EU were fast tracking the process to allow them in. However after your old mate president Erdogan started rounding up teachers and journalists and threatening them with a death sentence it seems the EU have stalled a bit. So Mr Erdogan just threatened to open his borders with Bulgaria and let millions of migrants into Europe.

So we can let Turkey join and all their migrants can be part of the EU legally or we can refuse and they will be allowed here illegally via that wonderful recent addition....Bulgaria.

Which option do you think works best ? After all they will be your problem not ours, very soon.

And you are forgetting that we negotiated a 5 billion dollar loan from America at a highly competitive rate of interest,which we didn't actually manage to finally pay back until Tony Blair was in office.

One of the the most outrageous lies last June was that Turkey would soon be joining the EU and 72 millions Turks would have the right to enter the UK .They've been trying for EU membership for 30 years now and look as far away from acceptance as ever

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You would do well to remember that politicians are here to serve the people. Since the result of the vote was to leave the European Union - leaving the European Union cannot be considered a mistake at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

And you would do well to remember that 48% of the UK population voted for remain,not for "the tyranny of the majority." That's not how British democracy works.

 

[londonblue]

I expect nothing of the like. I expect that once those individual countries negotiators get round the table they will do what's best for themselves and their people and not what's best for the collective European good

The thing is we may well find those to be the same. Politically the UK has tended to be more right wing than the rest of Europe and you're applying "British" values here. Other countries might look at the bigger picture.

 

[Benfleet A1]

And you would do well to remember that 48% of the UK population voted for remain,not for "the tyranny of the majority." That's not how British democracy works.

Agreeing with a tory grandee? What's the world coming to.

 

[Gremlin]

And the winner of political analysis of the year goes to.....

I was correcting TUIB (again) rather than analysing your diatribe.

 

[Gremlin]

And you would do well to remember that 48% of the UK population voted for remain,not for "the tyranny of the majority." That's not how British democracy works.

I always remember the losers. After all, there's no game without them.