George Moncur

[bazzashrimper]

Can you (or @ShrimperStats) clarify what this is showing?

By touches if say Noor takes a touch to control it then passes backwards would that counts as two touches?

What’s the definition of progressive runs used here? If someone takes on the first man but loses the ball to the second does that count as a progressive run? What if they try and take on the first man but lose it does that count? If they beat the first man and the second does that count as one or two progressive runs?

Do you have one of these that includes wingbacks as well so we can see how Jack Bridge compares?

It reads to me as getting the ball and having freedom to be in good attacking positions. I guess data could link that with their goals and assists numbers. Being top right should be higher numbers else there is a problem with their distribution/ shooting

 

[JB Shrimper]

It reads to me as getting the ball and having freedom to be in good attacking positions. I guess data could link that with their goals and assists numbers. Being top right should be higher numbers else there is a problem with their distribution/ shooting

Or what they are being told to do

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It’s showing that Moncur ranks fairly well compared to other midfielders with regards to the number of ‘progressive runs’ he makes and ‘touches in the penalty area’ he takes per match.

However only two metrics are used, and it fails to take into account any other relevant metrics, different team styles, role requirements etc.

So is a touch in this context a literal touch?

Eg if someone miscontrols the ball and takes three touches to get it under control is that three touches as opposed to the first time pass being just one touch?

If a player takes on one player, stops and takes on another player, stops again and tries to take on another man but in the process loses it, is that one, two or three progressive runs?

 

[manor15]

So is a touch in this context a literal touch?

Eg if someone miscontrols the ball and takes three touches to get it under control is that three touches as opposed to the first time pass being just one touch?

If a player takes on one player, stops and takes on another player, stops again and tries to take on another man but in the process loses it, is that one, two or three progressive runs?

A touch with these measurements is usually more generic, as in a whole action, rather than individual touches.

From Opta:

Opta defines touches as the “sum of all events where a player touches the ball”. For example, if a player controls the ball, gets it out of his feet, then passes it to a team-mate, that would be one touch.

The same goes for a progressive run, though those don’t have much to do with taking someone on. It’s literally carrying the ball forward. Tracking number of progressive runs is a bit stupid, Moncur could make 3 per game with 2m of progression each, which is nothing compared to a player who looks worse for making two runs each of 10m of progression. Equally, attacking players tend to have shorter, more frequent progressive runs, whereas defenders/midfielders can have longer, less frequent ones.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

A touch with these measurements is usually more generic, as in a whole action, rather than individual touches.

From Opta:

Opta defines touches as the “sum of all events where a player touches the ball”. For example, if a player controls the ball, gets it out of his feet, then passes it to a team-mate, that would be one touch.

The same goes for a progressive run, though those don’t have much to do with taking someone on. It’s literally carrying the ball forward. Tracking number of progressive runs is a bit stupid, Moncur could make 3 per game with 2m of progression each, which is nothing compared to a player who looks worse for making two runs each of 10m of progression. Equally, attacking players tend to have shorter, more frequent progressive runs, whereas defenders/midfielders can have longer, less frequent ones.

Thank you.

Do you have the definition of progressive run as well?

 

[manor15]

Thank you.

Do you have the definition of progressive run as well?

“A continuous ball control by one player attempting to draw the team significantly closer to the opponent goal.”

Wyscout offers a bit more detail too:

A run is considered progressive if the distance before the starting point and the last touch of the player is:

• at least 30 meters closer to opponent goal if starting and finishing points are in own half
• at least 15 meters closer to opponent goal if starting and finishing points are in different field halves
• at least 10 meters closer to opponent goal if starting and finishing points are in opponent half

 

[bazzashrimper]

Or what they are being told to do

He’s clearly making progressive runs and getting in the opposition box. So this rubbishes claims that he is told to go backwards. Is your suggestion that when in these good positions he is then instructed by Maher to not create or score goals?

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

In the early games, Moncur got into very good positions. My disappointment with him was his conviction. Wealdstone away, he had a glorious chance and put it wide. There were a number of occasions in those early games where he either refused to shoot, delayed his shot or hit it wide. I kept telling myself that good players are in the right positions to miss them. However, he then stopped doing that altogether. I expected a lot more from him at the level we are at and the level he has played. I guess, like Bonne, he is here for a reason. Plenty rubbished Wes' talents for ending up at Ebbsfleet, what does that truly tell us about where Moncur's carrer has gone if he ends up there too?

Overall, it's a shame all round because you could see flashes of his talent and he seems a nice bloke, but we need more than that.

 

[JB Shrimper]

He’s clearly making progressive runs and getting in the opposition box. So this rubbishes claims that he is told to go backwards. Is your suggestion that when in these good positions he is then instructed by Maher to not create or score goals?

Judging by the way we have played football over the last 3 season, which involves getting into a good position then passing it out wide, I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[southendkid]

“A continuous ball control by one player attempting to draw the team significantly closer to the opponent goal.”

Wyscout offers a bit more detail too:

A run is considered progressive if the distance before the starting point and the last touch of the player is:

• at least 30 meters closer to opponent goal if starting and finishing points are in own half
• at least 15 meters closer to opponent goal if starting and finishing points are in different field halves
• at least 10 meters closer to opponent goal if starting and finishing points are in opponent half

Is that necessarily a positive thing? Running 30m with the ball is almost always going to be slower than passing the ball to someone 30m up the pitch. I think most sides will be quite happy to watch Moncur run with the ball 30m because it gives ample time for anyone that pushed forwards in an attack to run back to their defensive positions.

 

[hlane17]

Off to Ebbsfleet I believe, announcement pending of course.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

Is that necessarily a positive thing? Running 30m with the ball is almost always going to be slower than passing the ball to someone 30m up the pitch. I think most sides will be quite happy to watch Moncur run with the ball 30m because it gives ample time for anyone that pushed forwards in an attack to run back to their defensive positions.

This reminds me of an anecdote John McGovern tells of his time playing under Brian Clough:
“When I joined Hartlepool, every time I got the ball I used to try to run with it past other players. I wasn't very successful.

“One day at training, Brian told me to dribble a ball around a corner flag and back as fast as I could.

“He then told me to do it again without the ball.

“Then he asked 'which was easier?'

“I told him without the ball was easier and he replied 'well why don't you try passing it on Saturdays then?'.”

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This reminds me of an anecdote John McGovern tells of his time playing under Brian Clough:
“When I joined Hartlepool, every time I got the ball I used to try to run with it past other players. I wasn't very successful.

“One day at training, Brian told me to dribble a ball around a corner flag and back as fast as I could.

“He then told me to do it again without the ball.

“Then he asked 'which was easier?'

“I told him without the ball was easier and he replied 'well why don't you try passing it on Saturdays then?'.”

That reminds me of another crowd favourite who just faded away: Lee Sawyer.

 

[Cricko]

That reminds me of another crowd favourite who just faded away: Lee Sawyer.

He wasted his talent. Was such an exciting player once.

 

[Strykr]

He wasted his talent. Was such an exciting player once.

Agree.

A player like that is precisely what we are missing now. exciting attacking flair.

Feels like a very long time since we had an 'edge of the seat' player.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

i'm surprised about that to be honest. i thought that's what we needed from him, but he didn't seem to do it to me.

 

[Chrisb]

Agree.

A player like that is precisely what we are missing now. exciting attacking flair.

Feels like a very long time since we had an 'edge of the seat' player.

For me, currently Bim is that player.

 

[Roger The Alien]

He wasted his talent. Was such an exciting player once.

It’s because Chelsea recalled him and put him up a division on loan at Coventry and they left him on the bench.

 

[dusterman]

He wasted his talent. Was such an exciting player once.

He was fantastic. Was there when he bossed the game away at Tranmere. Remember everyone trying to get a whip-round started to sign him permanently. Not seen many more exciting talents at our level than him in my time.

 

[Strykr]

It’s because Chelsea recalled him and put him up a division on loan at Coventry and they left him on the bench.

That and his charge of battery.

But yes, maybe if he'd have stayed with us his whole life could have been different. Massive waste of talent.